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Post by aas on Mar 23, 2017 15:27:48 GMT -5
Trying to be more 'pro' and streamlined in my work process - I got rid of masses of tools and bought into the Festool eco-system. To cut a long story short, some of the Festools didn't work out for me, and I replaced them with Mafell (and Metabo for cordless).
I still have the Festool vac - nothing wrong with it so no point changing it - but I'll grab a Starmix when I can.
Biggest benefits over shop vac - better dust extraction (filtration), less noise, more portable - (and I think they look more professional - not like I turned up with a cheapy from the local DIY store!)
As an asides, the compatibility between all my tools makes the Festool work well. There is a slight difference between the Mafell and Festool hose ends, so my FXS-L has a Festool nozzle on one end.
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Post by kraftt on Mar 23, 2017 16:25:10 GMT -5
(I notice that CS Unitech has the same Metabo/Starmix vac for 599. Metabo amazon also 599.) ------------------------------------------------------ 'Bessie-Lou' isn't cheap! She's adorable:  Sticking up for her I'll remind everyone that while you're going on you 3rd vac she's still going strong. The Starmix vacs may have the very cool feature of periodically tapping/shaking off caked sediment from the dual filters, but's that's all it is - cool. A simple Wunderbag in a shop vac doesn't require this. It just doesn't lose suction. Air volume though a Wunder bag is volumes greater than the two Starmix filters. And it holds up to 40lbs. of fine dust. All a vac does is suck. The filters are everything. The Wunderbag filters to .5 micron. All the added $$$ HEPA does is take it to .3 micron (I believe). As far a noise goes you're using it with an electric saw 24" away from your ears. As far as which looks more professional, clients are clueless and just want the job to be over. (Even the wealthiest are cheap and instead could think they over hired.) Portability, no way, a shopvac can be thrown around and lay any which way in your vehicle. With the Wunderbag I don't carry my little Thien anymore, for portability I just toss the full bag or slit, empty, seal back up. Everything fits inside tub too plus more for lazy mans trips to and from truck while on wheels. Metabo 602057420 comes in at a chunky 33lbs. Bessie just weighed in at a svelte 26 with all her junk in the trunk and a little bit in the diaper. No way you're sucking up water with your Festool / Starmix's - you could, but you wont. Bessie-Lou gets stolen, dropped, kicked - so what. Starmix gets nicked - bummer. The filter bag is the star of the show - that's it. |
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 20:26:46 GMT -5
yuk... So I only now just started digging into the shop vac that I have and found that it's a bit different that they type we've been discussing- the intake is on the head unit, and it's got this split distributor thingy... and it's not a conventional size- not 2.5" at least- the hose fittings don't fit in them. Maybe I'm dead in the water, but I thought I'd poll the brain trust for ideas.  I could possibly seal that inlet and put a new one on the body with one of these:  And then figure out what to use for a nipple on the inside. |
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 20:31:35 GMT -5
aas and krafttGreat comments from both of you- thanks much.
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 20:57:26 GMT -5
kraftt I'm just now looking closer at your rig- what is the modification on the inside? It looks like male to male coupling- is it 2.25"? Is that what the bag fits on? What's with the butt plug? How did it originally work? Thanks in advance, I'm sensing that even greater enlightenment awaits...
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 20:59:42 GMT -5
kraftt What's with the butt plug? How did it originally work? Wait a minute! The plug appears to be on the head unit- did you have a similar situation to mine? |
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Post by kraftt on Mar 23, 2017 22:27:09 GMT -5
All joking aside, the 'plug' is so the vac doesn't cough up anything out of the suction hole when hose is detached - I really do abuse and throw the vac around.
I don't need to but for some reason I leave the stock pleated filter in place, it always stays clean now, I guess it's just a place to store it in case I want to take out the Wunderbag and need to clean up something horrible.
The inlet mod was just a rubber pipe coupling to mate a similar size (similar size as existing inlet) abs coupling (routed edge to make slipping on Wunder easier). I think original inlet was a molded sudo 90º to protect stock pleated filter from straight through impact. My pleated filter, which does nothing (still plenty of suction when in place using Wunder) has a quarter sheet of plastic (few holes punched in it) aligned to the inlet to diffuse straight in impact of large debris.
Many, many years ago I had owned this vac less than a few months when I used it to vacuum up freshly sanded oak floors. Blissfully did two rooms and couldn't figure out why things were still so dusty. I was the guy blowing everything out the exhaust of the vac. I opened the vac to empty it and was shocked to see I never replaced/installed the pleated filter. There was no bag, nothing, I had choked the motor with dust. Didn't sound too good any more either. But I had a tall can of the original Dow(?) CRC(?) Dupont(?) Teflon dry lube. And I ran the top/motor off of the tub while spraying in, non stop, the entire can into the impeller fan/motor while running. I've never had an issue since. Maybe it was the teflon, maybe the delivery solvent, maybe motor just needed to be cleaned and I lucked out with a shop vac that had good dna?
I don't call it Bessey but I do call it "you ******* P.O.S.!" every time it grabs hold of a plastic dust barrier and brings it down, sucks up towels, swallows an important part, etc. It's crazy powerful.
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Post by kraftt on Mar 23, 2017 22:56:17 GMT -5
as far as your inlet goes the whole tub is a vacuum chamber so you 'could' plug the existing inlet and drill in any size inlet port you want at a suitable location.
You can't hurt it. Worst case you Frankenstein it and leave it around as a back up etc. and then order up a Starmix/Metabo. Money is important but one small job is going to pay for a Starmix so do what makes you happy. If you really want a Starmix put your energy in that direction. Tinkering only works out about 40% of the time (if you're good at it). Either way there's a price to pay.
(*edit: Sometimes you may not want full suction, say with sanders etc. The fix for this of course is adapting a vent inline on the hose using a fitting. The vent could be a hole in a cuff over a dedicated fitting near the sander that when you rotate it exposes a hole. The vac, while lessening suction to tool is now also directing floating particulate in the air, in closed spaces, to that vent for filtration.)
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Post by toomanytoys on Mar 24, 2017 9:36:57 GMT -5
Never mind..........
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 24, 2017 11:19:54 GMT -5
kraftt, Thanks again for all the input/insight. I'm going to give it a go with the shopvac.
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Post by kraftt on Mar 24, 2017 12:20:07 GMT -5
No problem, nice to know I’ve found my calling in life as a vacuum salesman.
fwiw - The vac I showed is only a 12 gallon tub and the W.B. fits fine. If yours is a smaller tub then you might want to buy a W.B. (sold in pairs online) and test fit first. It’s a floppy cloth like bag so it’s not critical.
Additionally cheap used shop vacs are plentiful on eBay & Craigslist for parts, use, or experimenting. And new parts are surprisingly still available for everything on mine from motor to tub.
I think I heard about ShopVac (the actual company) coming out with new bags (tear resistant) last year and one was a HEPA. I don’t know if it’s the same material that Star/Fest/D.T. uses but I might just order one out of curiosity because they would be sized for larger vacs & for smaller vacs too like the rest of their useless legacy bags. Maybe they are catching on and it’s the same stuff. From what I remember at the time the D.T. W.B. was less money and available at some home centers so I didn’t bother.
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mattj
Junior Member
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Post by mattj on Mar 26, 2017 7:02:43 GMT -5
Great thread!
I can confirm that standard shop vac hoses fit into Festool vacs (so I would assume that it works vice versa). And it seems that the vac end of the various Euro hoses seem to be the same standard size. I've used hoses from Festool, Bosch, and some generic euro brand and they all work fine (at the vac). The tool end fittings seem to be all over the place, so that's where the cobbling comes in for me.
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simon
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Mar 28, 2017 15:53:46 GMT -5
I'm not American and I don't have any experience with those infamous shop vacs you guys have over there. But from what I've read and understand they have a large diameter hose that doesn't really connect to any tool without all kinds of adapters. Please feel free to correct me if I'm spreading wrong information here though. It sounds to me you're trying to fight the ecosystem and I really do hate to be that guy, but in my opinion the best thing you can do, is to simply bite the bullet and buy the longer flex hose and a good dust extractor that was designed to fit with these tools. I strongly recommend the Metabo ASR 35 ACP . It is a rebranded Starmix Ipulse. The same ones Mafell themselves sell but at a cheaper price. The most important thing is that it comes with a large 35mm diameter hose and a 27mm connector. This 35mm hose is important! It allows better airflow than other dust extractors that come with a 27mm diameter hose by default. It also happens to be the best dust extractor currently on the market. Alternatives are a Festool CT, Bosch VAC090, Fein Turbo but these all ship with thinner hoses out of the box, which is not what you want. Again, most importantly, it comes with a 35mm hose and a rubber end that will fit any of the high end tools. A lot of guys don't want to drop that kind of money on a vacuum, but it's the best tool purchase you'll ever make. This will fit any of tool with a dust port from reputable manufacturers like Mafell, Festool, Makita, Bosch... |
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simon
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Mar 28, 2017 15:58:39 GMT -5
Hi Jonathan, can you confirm that Metabo's ASR 35 M ACP as sold in UK/Europe has a hose diameter dial and that this dial can adjust the suction of the extractor? And while we're on the subject - in your view is there any real difference between the Starmix ipulse, the Mafell S 35 M and the Metabo ASR 35 M ACP?
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Post by kraftt on Mar 28, 2017 19:28:16 GMT -5
I didn't know they made these:  They come 15' / 457cm long and start out at 2" / 50mm wide then start tapering the last 5' / 152cm down to 1-½" / 38mm. About $25ea. It's supposed to give the suction of a 2" dia hose at the end without the loss of a full 1-½ hose. |
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