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Post by kraftt on Mar 23, 2017 8:49:37 GMT -5
In dedicated cutting environments I’m sure the Fest/Maf/Met/Starmix vacs are great. But for the sake of discussion I’ll take the unenlightened American role and say why, for me, I’m staying with a shop vac for now. Rarely do I find ideal work environments shown in brochures. Part of the attraction of a shop-vac is the simplicity, value, long term consumables cost vs other systems. The stock 2”id hoses pick up larger debris too without choking the hose. So they’re a bit more versatile for ‘general’ construction use. To me that double duty is the more elegant solution. I know that the Starmix vacs are very robust and can take almost equal abuse but to date one of my shop vacs has gone end over end down flights of stairs off the back of vehicles more than I can count, rained on etc. for almost 20 years. Gotta think that with more moving parts etc that a Starmix would have given up long ago or cost a lot more to maintain. Put some cheap upgrade casters/wheels on my shop vacs and have yet to find any vac anywhere that rolls as easy as mine - bar none. That’s important when I pull on the vac hose. You can mod the hell out of cheap shop vacs with generic parts. But none of this matters because a shop vacs filters & paper bags are TERRIBLE. I laugh when I see guys blowing out as much dust as they draw in with unmodified vacs. However… with the introduction of the WunderBag any ol shop-vac now competes toe to toe in dust collection with certain cost advantages. All Dustless Technologies did was leverage the same benefits and stick a $200 hpea filter inside to sell a dumb shop vac for $550. I don’t need the hepa so for the cost of an abs coupling & a hose clamp I now use the same WunderBag (they’re huge) inside my old shop vacs for almost zero investment. As for auto on with tool power there are too many work arounds offered. For myself I use a simple 15amp rated inline foot switch. I prefer it because again in the real world I often need to pull the hose off the tool and do some quick clean up. With independent control I don’t have to walk over to the vac to turn it on & off. In the case of the Aerofix I would think independent control is actually an advantage And everything, the WunderBag, main hose, accessory nozzles, extra bags, foot switch - ALL fit inside the tub and stay there (except hose) during operation, staying dust free. Adapters are available and if you can’t find what you are looking for you just break out the heat gun and expand some abs couplings etc. ------------------------------------------- fwiw - I do think the mafell AeroFix long hose to be a desirable solution and as others have mentioned a great dual purpose accessory (just overpriced). gerp, i did find this:  better price:  |
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Post by toomanytoys on Mar 23, 2017 10:01:15 GMT -5
As another unenlightened American, I too have found the Wunderbag an improvement on my unenlightened Craftsman ShopVac and my semi-enlightened Fein ShopVac.
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 10:12:06 GMT -5
Thanks krafttThe link isn't working for me, but no matter, I now have _two_ strong recommendations for the FXS-L for my specific need, so I'm good on that end. |
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 10:14:45 GMT -5
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 10:35:16 GMT -5
...from what I've read and understand they have a large diameter hose that doesn't really connect to any tool without all kinds of adapters. ...bite the bullet and buy the longer flex hose and a good dust extractor that was designed to fit with these tools. I strongly recommend the Metabo ASR 35 ACP. This 35mm hose is important!Hello jonathan- thanks for the reply. I think your comments about American are fair, although I'd add that I don't know how much they're used for dust extraction, rather I've seen them primarily used for clean-up, as a simple vacuum cleaner. This is my first foray into dust extraction, though. I definitely want a proper dust extractor, but I'm going to have to get by for now. on the upside, @eoj linked me to a Festool adapter that looks perfect. I had to go to the manufacturers website to actually get dimensions, but now it looks like 58mm is a conventional OD size, and looks like it will fit the 2.25" port on the ShopVac just fine. Especially thanks for the 35mm hose comments. At this moment I think I'm going to get a 35mm Festool hose with the 58mm attachment for the vac end, and 27mm fitting on the tool end, and the 1000mm Mafell hose per @eoj and aas recommendations. |
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Post by kraftt on Mar 23, 2017 11:14:10 GMT -5
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 11:16:50 GMT -5
Rarely do I find ideal work environments shown in brochures. Put some cheap upgrade casters/wheels on my shop vacs and have yet to find any vac anywhere that rolls as easy as mine - bar none. However… with the introduction of the WunderBag any ol shop-vac now competes toe to toe in dust collection with certain cost advantages. For myself I use a simple 15amp rated inline foot switch. And everything, the WunderBag, main hose, accessory nozzles, extra bags, foot switch - ALL fit inside the tub and stay there (except hose) during operation, staying dust free. Adapters are available and if you can’t find what you are looking for you just break out the heat gun and expand some abs couplings etc. Great comments krafttI definitely am a sucker for the idealized marketing that shows everything in perfection, and I definitely want to end up that way, but person demon is 'optimizing' and now it's time for me to stop that and start actually get some work done :-) By the way, as far as durability goes, I think it was Starmix that had a bunch of videos in the theme of 'can you break it?'. I don't know how much stock to put in that, but they claim great durability. Although with my money, I'd rather do accidental durability testing on the less expensive stuff :-) Wheels- YES! The bane of my existence is managing the wheels of stuff that shouldn't need managing. Nothing drives me up a wall like having to pick up and carry something with wheels! I need a vac to _easily_ follow me around while I pull on the hose. My Dad swear that 5 wheels is the trick for this. Thanks VERY much (to toomanytoys, too) for the Wunderbag recommendation, I'm actually starting to feel a lot better about this method, except for the noise, but I'll deal with that. And thanks for the switching thoughts, I have a current sensing switch, but I like your comments about foot switching- do you have a photo of a product that you like? I've never modified ABS for fittings, but I'm game :-) |
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 11:40:26 GMT -5
So this goes to my core frustration on this topic- I can't really tell what the Bosch will fit, and when I try to look for more specifics on the Bosch site, I can't find much in the way of details, and Bosch strongly implies that it's part of a proprietary system. All manufacturers do this- there's profit in keeping people confused, but they do it primarily when there's little value differentiation. That said, the price is good, relative to the Festool, which also isn't clear about it's dimensions (452884 Suction hose D 36 antistatic D 36x5m-AS- doesn't say anything about the connectors, so I don't really know what they plug into on either end) and so maybe I'll just get it, and then see what I need to make it work. Thanks goodness for the internet, and the MUG :-) |
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 11:45:58 GMT -5
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Post by kraftt on Mar 23, 2017 12:00:55 GMT -5
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 12:01:47 GMT -5
I laugh when I see guys blowing out as much dust as they draw in with unmodified vacs. I'm laughing, because that's what I always thought they were _for_- just to move the dust away from where I'm working so I don't have to blow it to see the line I'm trying to follow :-) Wait, you mean the dust is supposed to _stay_ inside the big empty motor holder? I thought it was just a stand for my beer. |
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 12:07:13 GMT -5
Here’s ‘ol ‘Bessie-Lou’. (That’s another thing, if you own a euro vac you’d probably have to give it some Un-American name like ‘Rolf’, or ‘ol Merkel’ or something. I shudder just to think of it.) DOWN WITH THE TYRANNY OF THE EUROVAC! After all this work, I'll have to come up with a name for the rig, I guess. Thanks again kraftt- you've monumentally helpful. Literally. This thing is going to be a monument to something, might as well be you :-) Though, I'm starting to wonder if for the cost of all parts and labor, if I could afford a EuroVac :-) |
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Post by aas on Mar 23, 2017 14:50:22 GMT -5
If you can - get a Starmix based vac - probably Metabo is the most cost effective. It will work perfectly with the Aerofix, without having to resort to any hair pulling!..
I gave up on 'shop-vacs' a while back, wouldn't go back to one.
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Post by reflector on Mar 23, 2017 14:51:35 GMT -5
On a quick skim of this thread and as another American with a Shopvac utilized as a motor source for a cyclone, I think there's a (quick and less than 75 dollars) solution to this:
1. Find an adapter (Source your own, design and 3D print, make it out of wood...)
2. Find a ShopVac "9062500" hose. It has a 2.5" fitting like the 2.5" hoses, but its the threaded type. You can just jam it into the port if your SV doesn't have the threads or is one of the tab locking types. Then buy a Bosch VAC024 adapter and stick it onto the 1.5" hose end. The Bosch adapter will fit inside the straight section of the hose.
I was using the latter for a while, sort of. I had the 2.5" hose running to my cyclone and my 1.5" hose into my Mafell. I eventually moved on to use the blue antistatic Bosch hoses (They're much more rigid and resistant to being crushed) on the cyclone when I got two of them at an insanely good price.
If I have time I'll take a photo of the 1.5" SV hose and the Bosch adapter if I can find it in the mess of the garage. Mine came with my Shopvac (5872510 if you're curious) unit.
PS: Solution 2 will let you also stick the adapter onto the P1cc jigsaw and many other tools since the adapter is the type that Festool/Mafell/etc all like to use.
3. A Shopvac "9064900" is a 2.5" to 1.5" adapter. I have not tried it out before nor have I stuck one on my Bosch VAC024 adapter so I don't know if you could get away with just your 2.5" hose. The 1.5" hose does reduce suction a little but it isn't too bad, especially when compared to 1.25"/27mm hoses (Keep those things away, even my Sebos have larger diameter hoses.)
Before you ask: I have done a 2.5" -> "adapter" -> MT55cc before. I wouldn't recommend it due to the clunkiness of the hose diameter and how well the MT55cc handles dust collection. Going down to 1.5" won't hurt at all.
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Post by gerp124 on Mar 23, 2017 15:05:02 GMT -5
If you can - get a Starmix based vac - probably Metabo is the most cost effective. It will work perfectly with the Aerofix, without having to resort to any hair pulling!.. I gave up on 'shop-vacs' a while back, wouldn't go back to one. What finally pushed you over the edge from the conventional 'shop vac' type? |
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