simon
Junior Member

Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Apr 24, 2017 16:17:10 GMT -5
Thanks Simon I already know about that site but I think mafelluser wanted to know what the power intake is also on the starmix website it shows speed control but doesn't on the other sellers l so that's why I said I would call the guy when I get a chance. I wasn't responding to you - Mafelluser asked me for where I'd found the Starmix at that price, so I posted the link.
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Post by huntsgemein on Apr 24, 2017 20:10:46 GMT -5
The best prices I can find online in UK are - Mafell -£670, Starmix - £583, Bosch - £480 and the Metabo - £470. Thanks for going to all that effort to find that information, Simon; much appreciated! Can you point me to where you found the Starmix being retailed in the UK, please? Cheers! www.starmix.de/en/traders
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Post by My 2 pennies on Apr 25, 2017 2:45:52 GMT -5
The starmix I pulse has 2200W powertool intake It does not have variable suction. It also has long life washable polyester filters. 3 year warranty when you register. It can be purchased from here : www.addex-group.com/en/ who are a distributer for starmix and other safety, dust management equipment in the UK. The guy there is called Grant, hes happy to help/advise anyone. Also if you intend to go on site work in uk you cant go on site with a L class vac. I hope this helps.
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Post by mafelluser on Apr 25, 2017 17:31:37 GMT -5
Thanks for going to all that effort to find that information, Simon; much appreciated! Can you point me to where you found the Starmix being retailed in the UK, please? Cheers! www.starmix.de/en/tradersStrangely, I've never been able to see United Kingdom / Great Britain / England etc. listed on Starmix's drop-down menu for dealers, but thanks anyway. Thankfully, the links suggested by My 2 pennies and Simon appear viable, though. It seems to be rather a minefield, choosing Starmix variants - the devil is in the detail, as they say. LOL.
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Post by huntsgemein on Apr 25, 2017 23:59:08 GMT -5
It's there, under "Vereinigtes Koenigreich", which is Teuton for U.K., located near the bottom of the countries list.
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Post by mafelluser on Apr 26, 2017 2:15:41 GMT -5
It's there, under "Vereinigtes Koenigreich", which is Teuton for U.K., located near the bottom of the countries list. LOL - thankyou (seriously, thankyou). For goodness sake; you'd think they'd make the wording understandable to the people who actually live in the country it refers to. Sheesh.... it's amazing some businesses manage to remain in business ;-)
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Post by huntsgemein on Apr 26, 2017 4:25:18 GMT -5
That's a mite unfair: it's their language, after all, and should be intelligible to their own citizenship & not necessarily to others. If one nationality can't understand another's spoken or written language, then than that's purely the fault of the listener/reader.
I've found that the English speaking world collectively (in this I include myself) has utterly appalling international linguistic skills. Your typical European, on the other hand, has astonishing multilingual capabilities. Some contributors to this particular forum, for example, are - at least in written communication - indistinguishable from a native Anglophone, mercifully realising that if they communicated in their own tongue it would be quite unintelligible to us poor monolingual idiots. There's an undercurrent in much of the English speaking world of cultural ignorance & arrogance in that there's an intrinsic and ingrained attitude & expectation that others should understand us but not vice versa.
I'm not for a moment suggesting that you might share this particular undesirable characteristic: this isn't a criticism, merely an observation of the pervasive cultural attitudes of monolingual Anglophones. For example, almost half of North America speaks a native tongue other than English. Principally Spanish. In the USA the proportion is some 30%! Where's the bilingual public signage? Restricted mainly to small areas of those particular former Hispanic states that were invaded & annexed by the USA in the 19th century, if at all. That's a pretty big cultural "minority" to ignore!
Whenever a foreign movie is released (in English) that doesn't have actors speaking in a mid-atlantic drawl, many reviewers bemoan the absence of subtitles, claiming that the language is essentially unintelligible. My common reply to these puerile criticisms is usually "because I didn't thing you'd be clever enough to read". The point is that Anglophonic speech is pretty well uniform the world over. Words not only sound the same, but convey almost invariably similar meaning, with the obvious exception of argot and colloquialism. I myself have particular difficulty with north american negro "ghetto speak". I also struggle with abbreviated words, yet am equally guilty of using them. Thus afternoon is "arvo", sandwich is "sanger", a hot dog is a "sav", 100mph (160km/h) is "the ton" etc. To a compatriot, at least to one of my own age & cultural background, these would be instantly recognisable; to an "outsider" it would be gibberish. But to fail to comprehend an alien accented English is really to display one's own cultural isolation & ignorance. There's really no justifiable excuse for misunderstanding regional accents.
German is a wonderful language. It's above all else accurate & concise. Those added suffixes that make such confusingly long words are used as concise variants to convey specific meaning. It could be described as the language of science. It's also just another derivative of the same Anglo Saxon dialect that I'm writing & you're reading, which is why it's at least on a basic level relatively intelligible to me anyway compared to Mandarin, Hindi, Cantonese, Arabic or the "Latin" languages that the majority of the world speaks. Where German is concise, English can be vague. Where German is accurate, English seems infinitely nuanced & perplexing to many & often easily misinterpreted. Probably due to its (relative) internationality English "suffers" - or more likely is enhanced & enriched by - an inordinate number of loanwords from many of other tongues. A lasting legacy of Empire, & fairly unprecedented. From the aspects of vocabulary & syntax, however, German would nonetheless have to be the English language's closest neighbour.
The use of the term "Vereinigtes Koenigreich" is justified I believe in this context: every German speaker would instantly recognise the name of place to which the words in German for "United Kingdom" refer. Just as any Latin American by nationality or descent would instantly know that "Etats Unidos" refers to their northern (& Canada's southern) neighbor. The fact that we as fellow citizens of a globalised world economy mightn't be as smart is definitely not something to be proud of.
Despite it's internationalist pretensions English also remains, so I'm told repeatedly, a devilishly difficult language to learn.
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Post by charley1968 on Apr 26, 2017 7:00:18 GMT -5
Man, i love your OTs ! But i do think you're a bit harsh on the anglophones, 'cause in my experience it's quite often a matter of 'Halb' zog sie ihn, halb' sank' er hin', meaning a lot of non-native english speakers go out of their way to speak english as the opportunity arises and even though the english speaker is well able to communicate in the local lingo. To me, speaking english means to be part of the inter-national community per se, and i've observed this in diverse cultural settings ,like in Egypt, Israel, Scandinavia, Phillippines..that said: we all ought to learn mandarin !😉
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Post by My 2 pennies on Apr 26, 2017 8:13:26 GMT -5
whats a North American negro? What type of dust extracter is that.
I thought they stopped using this word since 1970.
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Post by charley1968 on Apr 26, 2017 10:32:57 GMT -5
Methinks, huntsgemein is a bit of a non-conformist and fancies provocative language. I wouldn't read any racism into his words.. But cool you spoke up, tuppence!
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Post by mafelluser on Apr 26, 2017 13:36:54 GMT -5
That's a mite unfair: it's their language, after all, and should be intelligible to their own citizenship & not necessarily to others. If one nationality can't understand another's spoken or written language, then than that's purely the fault of the listener/reader. I've found that the English speaking world collectively (in this I include myself) has utterly appalling international linguistic skills. Your typical European, on the other hand, has astonishing multilingual capabilities. Some contributors to this particular forum, for example, are - at least in written communication - indistinguishable from a native Anglophone, mercifully realising that if they communicated in their own tongue it would be quite unintelligible to us poor monolingual idiots. There's an undercurrent in much of the English speaking world of cultural ignorance & arrogance in that there's an intrinsic and ingrained attitude & expectation that others should understand us but not vice versa. I'm not for a moment suggesting that you might share this particular undesirable characteristic: this isn't a criticism, merely an observation of the pervasive cultural attitudes of monolingual Anglophones. I happen to agree. I am English and, my whole life, I've been disgusted at how my British education failed to teach me foreign languages from an early age, when I would easily and rapidly have absorbed it. As many people know, there is a certain window of time during which the maturing child's brain is particularly adept at absorbing and integrating language (iirc, it was Noam Chomsky who highlighted this human propensity). It's a disgrace that foreign language is taught too late and in a half-arsed way by the British education system. I didn't even get a sniff of a foreign language (French) lesson until I was nearly 12 yrs old! However, please note that my previous remark about the Starmix website wasn't intended to imply that a German website should 'speak English instead of German', but just that if they are serious about doing business internationally, then it really wouldn't be too much to ask to side-step the German for countries not natively speaking German, on a page specifically intended to guide international customers to dealers in their native country. How many Germans want to buy a German product from other countries? A fair few, no doubt, but not nearly as many as native-speakers of the primary language in each of those international countries, so it's daft (I stand by this) to use entirely German labels on that international dealer-search menu. If a business wants to serve international customers then it should make it easy for international customers to find the information they need, rather than assuming they speak German (to be clear: I am only speaking of that international dealer-search page. The rest of their website, it is their right to keep 100% German). I say this even though I agree with your broader remarks, quoted above. As a native Brit, I can admit, quite candidly, that the British, in particular, are a disgrace in their ineptness with foreign languages, but I contend that this is more about being failed by the education system (which is extremely complacent about the importance of being multi-lingual) than it necessarily is about arrogance (sure, there are a certain percentage of jingoistic ignoramuses in Britain, just as there are in every country, but I believe that, had the education system taught foreign languages from a MUCH earlier age, the majority of Brits would be much better-equipped to converse with their European and other international neighbours, and would very happily do so). It's an embarrassment to me and many British people I know, compounded by the fact that we know we are perceived by our European neighbours as uncaring or even arrogant about speaking English when abroad, but I hope a good many Europeans understand that only a small minority use English when abroad, out of arrogance or complacency - a far larger percentage of Brits have been failed by their education and feel awkward at how poor their foreign language skills are, sincerely wishing they were much more fluent, and feeling too shy to try to speak a foreign language to native-speakers, self-consciously realising how bad they are at it! Cheers.
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simon
Junior Member

Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Apr 26, 2017 15:09:40 GMT -5
Gentlemen, gentlemen - as interesting and indeed, enlightening as this recent, somewhat! tangential, cross cultural discussion is - could we return to the matter at hand?
The question that comes to mind for me at the moment is, why so few have participated in the poll. I started it as an exercise in data collection and to potentially use in an email to manufacturers supporting a case for clearer information regarding dust extraction/classification/health issues. Only 3 people other than myself have registered on the poll - did I ask the wrong questions? Is it misguided in some way? Too intrusive perhaps?
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Post by huntsgemein on Apr 26, 2017 20:51:26 GMT -5
Gentlemen, gentlemen - as interesting and indeed, enlightening as this recent, somewhat! tangential, cross cultural discussion is - could we return to the matter at hand? The question that comes to mind for me at the moment is, why so few have participated in the poll. I started it as an exercise in data collection and to potentially use in an email to manufacturers supporting a case for clearer information regarding dust extraction/classification/health issues. Only 3 people other than myself have registered on the poll - did I ask the wrong questions? Is it misguided in some way? Too intrusive perhaps? Personally I was a bit at sixes & sevens as to the actual question asked. Which vacs do you own, or which would you want? My pair (one has since been stolen) predate any classification. One (Festo SR5E) was about 30 years old and the other approaching 20 (CT22). Are either L class equivalents? I wouldn't have the foggiest, thus finding it hard to interpret what was asked. I'm intending to replace them both with a single ASR 50 M AC. Its M classification would hopefully allow future professional/commercial/industrial use should the need arise. As I always intend to use bags, the intermittent "autoclean plus" functionality of the latest 35 litre M, H & "Asbest" classes would be utterly redundant, if not a nuisance. The "50" however seems to tick all the right boxes: 35mm A/S hose standard (I already have 5!! 27mm hoses, four of which are A/S), its big enough for workshop & domestic cleaning duties, it has a centralised inlet like the old Festo did, which means it trails along behind faithfully around obstacles, rather than forever veering sideways like the Festool does. It still has airflow monitoring & a body plug, essential for chasing & grinding operations. It still has an intermittent "autoclean", just not the automatic "autoclean plus" of the latest generation should it ever actually be used with open topped polyethylene bags or sans bag. It has Metadepot Systainer/Metabox/Metaloc/Macpac/Hitachi/Ultimate Dust Deputy compatibility, allowing "attachment" of any of my sanders & abrasives. The new generation, despite promises, still doesn't. It has a standard nice tall metal handle which makes it so much less of a handful when ascending & descending stairs, esp. when loaded up with paraphernalia. The nextgen vacs have handles listed as a difficult to source accessory. Finally, and to me most importantly is the price. The "50" is available locally on special. The ASR 35 M ACP would cost me over 25% more, for what is in some aspects a "lesser" tool: the equivalent Festool Autoclean Concrete model costs a whopping 60% more!
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Post by huntsgemein on Apr 26, 2017 21:16:46 GMT -5
However, please note that my previous remark about the Starmix website wasn't intended to imply that a German website should 'speak English instead of German', but just that if they are serious about doing business internationally, then it really wouldn't be too much to ask to side-step the German for countries not natively speaking German, on a page specifically intended to guide international customers to dealers in their native country. Read more: mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/869/which-mobile-extractor-materials?page=4#ixzz4fPWUBcF8I agree with you too. The words themselves (i.e. the Country's title) could've been chosen more wisely. Instead of using "Vereinigtes Koenisreich" something more easily recognisable like "Grossbrittanien" or even merely "Brittanien" would've been preferable. Blame the Brits! The country is variously called (rightly or wrongly I know) England, Great Britain, Britain, the British Isles & the United Kingdom, or to me in the last Anglo Saxon enclave in the South Seas it's lovingly called "Pommieland". The German title used, whilst instantly recognisable to any German speaker, is less so for us monophones. Yet as a close sister language to native English, the German language has more similarities than differences to English. For instance, to us it's "Hungary", to the Germans it's "Ungarn", to the French "Hongrie", which is still recognisable, yet to the Hungarians themselves it's "Magyarorszag". What the? Languages are nothing if not idiosyncratic, aren't they?
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simon
Junior Member

Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Apr 27, 2017 0:43:02 GMT -5
You're right, now I look at it, that could have been clearer. "Which mobile extractor L, M, H?" do you own? "For what materials?" I missed out the 'do you own?' Anyway the whole thing is a failed attempt at gathering some raw data, never mind. So you've decided on the Metabo ASR M SC model? I'm not sure given some of your stated usage - "Serious dust is also very occasionally generated by using 5' & 6" grinders for concrete diamond bladed floor & wall chasing & grinding with shrouds fitted & a monster 12" dry-cutting Bosch diamond floor saw. A 36mm hose clears the concrete dust best. There's also the need for about twice yearly cleanout of the flueways of my woodstove & 3 heaters that involves dealing with fairly large quantities of ash, soot & sticky creosote residues." Read more: mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/871/dust-extraction-options#ixzz4fQGa8nMethat always intending to use bags is a good idea. My understanding is the fleece bags act as a pre filter to 5 microns, and that concrete dust (particularly large quantities of it generated quite rapidly) would cake the bag in a very short time and the filters would also rapidly clog with the finer dust. You'd then have to stop the machine, if it hadn't already cut out anyway......well anyway, you get the picture. Did someone at Metabo advise this model for your needs? I know one man's meat is another man's poison - but in this case if your needs haven't changed since you posted - "Dust Extraction Options" I reckon this choice won't work for you. I remember you're sceptical about the filters auto cleaning over the open PE bags, and I agree with you this runs counter to common sense. Maybe I'm a sucker for marketing hype but the nano coated polyester filters can be washed clean (after use) and are so designed to be able to more effectively release dust particles.I was speaking to I think it was a Starmix rep and he commented that a pair were still going strong in a hire firms machine after 2 years (they have to be checked to retain certification). Also the more I think about it, it's pretty unlikely this system (we're talking Metabo here, so it's the ACP) has been designed to basically fail (yes I know about inbuilt obsolescence) in short shrift - too many angry users on forums like these and too many returns as 'unfit for purpose'. Back to the more interesting subject of language - I really liked your" What the? Languages are nothing if not idiosyncratic, aren't they?" A double negative wrapped in a tautology and embraced by rhetorical questions, and in case you get the wrong idea, no, I'm not bating you - it makes perfect poetic sense to me.  Which given the often perplexing nature of even our native tongue is quite an achievement. Any clarity in a dialogue about dust extraction is very welcome. Cheers.
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