simon
Junior Member
Posts: 83 
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Post by simon on Mar 31, 2017 15:33:10 GMT -5
Me - Festool CT 11 E (L class), Festool Midi (L class) and a PWM SP13 (I guess it'd be M class, as designed specifically for concrete/brick dust)
Materials - fillers of all descriptions, wood hard and soft, painted surfaces, masonry/concrete/brick.
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Post by charley1968 on Mar 31, 2017 18:03:22 GMT -5
Softwoods: L
Rest: M or H
Google Starmix Hazardous Information Booklet.
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simon
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Apr 4, 2017 9:49:49 GMT -5
Thanks Charley
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simon
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Apr 14, 2017 12:32:04 GMT -5
Roll up! Roll up! Don't be shy, you're information is safe with us.  |
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Post by charley1968 on Apr 16, 2017 9:22:32 GMT -5
Me: Fein Dustex 2, old model and some FT C17 something..both class L, i presume..
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Post by My 2 pennies on Apr 16, 2017 9:34:38 GMT -5
Most class m and L vacuumed are the same . They have the same filter
Work the same in terms of air purity and filteration.
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Post by My 2 pennies on Apr 16, 2017 9:41:19 GMT -5
The Bosch AFC is a good vacuume both the l and m class are the same , the m has a few extra bells. The Filtration is the same.
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Post by charley1968 on Apr 16, 2017 11:05:23 GMT -5
I believe it's not just the flow-sensor and -alarm but also the filter-category that differs between L and M.
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Post by My 2 pennies on Apr 16, 2017 13:35:30 GMT -5
The class is more to do with the over all machine not just the filter. . The Bosch gas35L and 35M have the same filter. the nilfisk M class and L class also have the same filter. The metabo asr (which is a watered down starmix) also has the same filters in both
I know because I have had nilkfisk and the Bosch. May be some others differ but most of the time the filter is the same.
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Post by charley1968 on Apr 16, 2017 16:36:54 GMT -5
I stand corrected. Did some googling and it confirmed what you wrote.
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Post by My 2 pennies on Apr 16, 2017 17:31:32 GMT -5
The main thing to look out for in a vac is automatic filter cleaning , that will insure optimal dust/ particle extraction and user safety while in continuous use. Semi filter cleaners are ok and usually a lot cheaper. The filter cleaning in these has to be done manually which while your cutting/ grinding /sanding could get clogged up and release dust debri in the air. Flow sensors and alarms are good but these types of vacs (Mclass) normally cost more and I think have more chance of going wrong due to extra sensors/parts etc.
Starmix and metabo asr are good vacs because one filter is running while the other is being cleaned. the starmix i pulse 1600 is very expensive like almost £600 but is the best. Nilfisk are also good vacs very robust compact user friendly easy to log around and to store your bits on. you can even put hepa filter in them. But these come in semi clean (L class) and push to clean (M class) , they have the same filters. because of the manual cleaning I sold mine. But nilfisk make really good stuff, the L class even has a blower function which I found really handy.
The Bosch gas35L and 35m are really good vacs they both have m class filters and auto clean the filter every 15,seconds , the gas l35m has a blue anti static hose , alarm and flow sencer. It weighs a tiny bit more (unnoticeable) and costs more . these vacs have good capacity 35l and a 60l. They have really good continuous suction , 254mbar and 741l sec. the price is good I picked mine up for around £380 with 3 year warranty.
The only draw back is that these give really loud and often alarming thuds while cleaning the filter , because the Bosch vac really hits hard on the filter the drawback to this is the noise it makes. I don't mind it personally because I know it's really shaking that filter clean. In fact according to bosch you really shouldnt need to manually clean the filters , they clean that good.
With most wet and dry m class filters once wet they must be allowed to dry before use so it's good to have a spare filter so you can continue using it after wet use.
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simon
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Apr 17, 2017 16:51:10 GMT -5
Most class m and L vacuumed are the same . They have the same filter Work the same in terms of air purity and filteration. Not the Mafells interestingly given where we are :-) - Firstly the S 25 L uses a cellulose filter, the S 25 M, a polyester filter and the S 35 M a polyester nano coated filter - this is basically an increasing scale of MERV ratings (A MERV rating measures the media’s fractional efficiency across three particle size ranges and then assigns the media a composite rating based on the total results. The higher the MERV rating, the more efficient the media is at removing particles in smaller size ranges) with the polyester nano coated being the most efficient. Thanks for putting in your two pennies though :-) Given what you've said about the Bosch and Metabo, L and M class models being the same, how does that fit with - "Staubklasse L and Staubklasse M are German standards relating to health in the workplace from an organization called BIA. To achieve Class L an extractor must not allow more than 1% of extracted dust to pass out of the filter to a "maximum allowable concentration" (MAK value) greater than 1 mg/m^3. To achieve Class M an extractor must not allow more than 0.1% of extracted dust to pass out of the filter to a "maximum allowable concentration" (MAK value) greater than 0.1 mg/m^3. There are several higher categories but Class H is generally the highest for normal trade use. To achieve Class H an extractor must not allow more than 0.1% (can be as low as 0.005%) of extracted dust to pass out of the filter to a "maximum allowable concentration" (MAK value) less than than 0.1 mg/m^3. Class L is suitable for general work. Class M is specifically for mineral dust, man-made wood-based dust, oak and beech woods. Class H is used with anything that is a known carcinogen or has known health related effects. (Lead, cadmium, asbestos etc.)" ? |
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Post by My 2 pennies on Apr 18, 2017 3:02:14 GMT -5
Hi , thanks for your two pennies worth also.
I don't know what filter s25 uses or what manufacturer it is , Mafell? . I said they are the same interms of air filteration because they have the exact same filters in them.
So ok il explain again... The M class has more to do with the overall machine Not just the filteration. if a vac uses a M class filter it doesn't become a M Category vac by default it has to meet other standards , such as flow sensors, regulators, alarms , plugs to go in on the vacume face when you detach the hose etc etc. The H class being more strict (emptying , bag removal exposure) and have a finer filter H class. these are the usually the most expensive vacs.
The Bosch Gas L 35 and the Bosch Gas 35M have the same M class filtration, the main difference between the two machines is the M has a optimal flow senser rugulater and warns the user (alarm) and has a senser to notify the vacume is full. It also has a anti static hose and a plug when you remove the hose from the machine to stop dust reentering the air when not in use.
So this meets the European M class Requirements on a vacume. In the nilfisk it's the same you can even put a hepa filter in because their filters are the same size and fitting. When I bought my nilfisk L class I spoke to the local nilfisk rep and he told me I could purchase the hepa filter and put that in my machine if I wanted and that the current filter in machene was M class. The hepa filter was like a £100 the vac was £120 to buy. So decided not to.
The metabo L class asr comes with M class filters inside , you can see this on the seller listings on google shopping. , but that does not make these m class vacumes as explained above, however the air filteration is the same.
I think makita also use the same filters but I will confirm this once I speak to the makita rep I know in Milton Keynes.
So that's 3 big brands here that use the same filter , obviously that's not the case with all vacs like in the ones you mentioned having different filters. So it's best to check what filter the vacuume you intend to purchase has in it. If your cutting materials in the M category Like Mdf etc then you should buy M certified vacume. If your work involves asbestos etc then you must use a H class vac.
you can google this if you want like some one did earlier. Hope this helps
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Post by My 2 pennies on Apr 18, 2017 4:32:31 GMT -5
UDATE **
Spoken to the tec guy at makita Milton Keynes , he said the makita 447M and the 447L class vacumes have the exact same filter in them , same part number. So that's makita, metabo, nilfisk , Bosch , I think that's the case for Festool also but not I'm not 100% . there are some discussions on fog that point to this.
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simon
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Apr 18, 2017 13:56:31 GMT -5
" I don't know what filter s25 uses or what manufacturer it is , Mafell?" "Not the Mafells interestingly given where we are ...." i.e. the mafell users forum  The S 25 L, the S 25 M and the S 35 M are all Mafell extractors, if you reread my post you'll see they have different filters installed. Which, it seems from what you say, makes Mafell the exception, although I've yet to find out what filters the Starmix extractors use. So if all that's true, how can the manufacturers claim different MAK values? Is this marketing (i.e. lies) or doublespeak? From what you've been saying, it would seem that only Mafell (and possibly Starmix? - which given they're the ones who allowed Mafell to use their extraction innovations, would seem - definitely) is being straight with the end user. And further, unless you're obligated to use a "higher" class of extractor by your country's health and safety legislation, there is No benefit to using one class rather than another, other than some bells and whistles Or you changing out a filter for something higher spec? I'm not having a go at you mate, just really confused and a bit p...d off at what I see as misleading marketing and bearing in mind the undeniable health risks involved, it would be great to have some clarity from the manufacturers themselves. |
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