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Post by woodie on Aug 31, 2013 21:52:53 GMT -5
Interesting post from Shane on the FOG about the Carvex blade ejection system. I know guys in Europe have complained about this and Frank Pellow mentions it in his review.
20-30 seconds just to get your blade out... WOW!
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Post by jonathan on Sept 1, 2013 1:39:41 GMT -5
I'm always fascinated when I read reports saying the new Carvex is the best thing since sliced bread even though there are so many glaring design issues. It sometimes gets sad to see how many just blindly lap Festool's marketing up without thinking twice.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Sept 2, 2013 19:47:38 GMT -5
I have a Trion, that I like, but I was also interested in a Carvex 420 -- being able to use the interchangeable bases is appealing, especially the dimpled base for rough work (need to cut some limestone tiles, actually). I also own the Bosch JS572 EB, but this saw has never cut square for me, no matter what tweaks I do or make to how I handle the tool. The Trion gives me good results. I have been contemplating a P1CC for awhile now and it looks like Mafell got lots of things right with this saw. I need help deciding and would be interested in hearing more thoughts on key differences between the saws. So far for me I have the following thoughts: Pros for the Carvex that are important to me: 1. Interchangeable bases for the dimpled base. Fiber base seems nice and the metal one for rough work. Not sure I would ever need the felt base. 2. Circle cutter seems to be on of the best out there with the largest range.3. Overall good dust collection.Cons for the Carvex: 1. Rail guide has no adjustment for slop -- why would Festool design anything for use on a rail without an adjustment screw to take out slop? That is just silly -- every other Festool that I have that uses the rails has an adjustment.2. No edge guide -- again, why? Just about every jigsaw out there has one of these and I use mine on the Trion for certain cuts. Using a rail as an edge guide seem clunky.3. Angle base -- cannot use it to scribe cabinets and have it fully supported and it does not have dust collection -- granted jigsaws do not generate a ton of flying dust, but DC is one of Festool's hallmarks.Pros for Mafell: 1. Power, ease of use, well thought out -- looks like everything just works and works well from the start2. Ability to use the guide rail in a multitude of fashion, includes an edge guide and the angle base looks pretty slick and would allow scribing3. From what I have read, squareness of cut is spot onCons for Mafell: 1. Cunex blades are not readily available2. Circle cutting is limited radius due to bar length on edge guide -- I wonder what the width of this is an if one could make a longer unit for a pivot...?3. No local dealer to try one out -- I know Timberwolf has good service, but buying site unseen gives me pause...not sure why as I have had to do that with lots of my other Euro stationary equipment
Questions for any current users: 1. Can Mafell use Festool guide rails? 2. How durable is the base of the saw -- i.e. would it get marred easily with rougher work like occasional cuts on stone, steel, etc...? 3. How square does it cut with standard t-shank blades (not the Cunex blades)? Thanks, Scot
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Sept 3, 2013 4:31:21 GMT -5
Welcome go the forum silly question why would you want to cut limestone with a jigsaw? Nobody I know in the trades would use a jigsaw for that sort of work we would all use either a grinder or a like a small table saw with stone cutting blade running through a water bath to keep the blade from overheating. Which I can't think what there called
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Post by jonathan on Sept 3, 2013 4:41:29 GMT -5
Here's a video by Woodie showing how the Mafell can be used with Festool tracks:
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Sept 3, 2013 9:38:10 GMT -5
Welcome go the forum silly question why would you want to cut limestone with a jigsaw? Nobody I know in the trades would use a jigsaw for that sort of work we would all use either a grinder or a like a small table saw with stone cutting blade running through a water bath to keep the blade from overheating. Which I can't think what there called Thanks...yes, I use a wet saw for most cuts but I need to cut a few curves for some tight fittings and a jigsaw would work well for the application, I think. It is just a few cuts, not 100's and the grinder/wet saw is too rough. I might just buy a couple of drills and use files too. Scot
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Sept 3, 2013 10:51:02 GMT -5
what about diamond core cutters as annual option I have heard that bosch do a diamond coated jigsaw blades as an another option
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Sept 3, 2013 11:15:43 GMT -5
what about diamond core cutters as annual option I have heard that bosch do a diamond coated jigsaw blades as an another option Yep -- Bosch and Festool both make Diamond coated jigsaw blades and they actually work pretty well -- I have used them on CBU with success -- they last a long time. 95% of the time my jigsaw use is relegated to woodworking, but I employ them into rougher tasks when needed -- occasional metal cutting, etc... One thing that Festool has over Mafell is the different bases for 90 degrees and the ability to change one out at low cost if it gets marred. I know that the bases for regular woodcutting would last a very long time but when you cut other stuff you can mess things up. Decisions, decisions... Scot
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char
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by char on Sept 3, 2013 13:00:39 GMT -5
I'm still debating myself, I love my MT55 track saw and I know I will get the same quality and performance with the P1CC Jigsaw but it seems that you get a little bit more from the Carvex for the money, with the accessories the circle cutter its better, I really don't care about the angle plate,but the other plates would seem to work for me, the light on the Carvex looks nice also the fact that the cord can be lifted up in case it gets in the way, but then the blade adjustment on the Carvex and weaker motor keeps tipping me over to the P1CC.
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Post by jonathan on Sept 3, 2013 13:58:57 GMT -5
As a disclaimer, the following are my personal opinions. I used to own a Carvex 400 and TS55 among others, before I traded up for Mafell. I'm not a Festool hater. In fact I have several thousand euros invested in Festool gear. I just call it as I see it. In my opinion the Carvex is a gimmick tool. They try to sell people on all kinds of bells and whistles but the basic core of the tool isn't solid. Firstly, you need to buy and lug around a second systainer for accessories, whereas on the Mafell it all comes in a single one. I've always said this, Festool is best suited in the shop, Mafell at the jobsite. This becomes very clear after just a few months of jobsite use side by side. In most cases, the Mafell systainer will be more compact and the attachments will fit with the tool, not an additional systainer. I'll start off with the strobe light gimmick. A LED light is a welcome addition to any tool. Unfortunately the visibility on the Carvex is poor by design. It gets completely frustrating when you pull the dust shroud down. In contrast the P1cc has better visibility and dust collection (for a jigsaw...) from the start. There's even far less dust inhibiting your view when used without a vaccuum. The guide brackets/brushes prematurely burn your up your blades. If you want to change to a different kind of blade you need an allen key which will get lost in no time as it can't be stored on the tool itself. To add insult to injury, as Shane from Festool USA has stated, the Carvex needs the blade at the top of its stroke for the ejection mechanism to work. In some instances, the blade does not return to this position and thus the ejection button doesn't work. This most commonly would happen if the Carvex is turned off mid-cut. The blade hangs on the material, preventing it from completely the stroke and returning to the top (home) position. It can then take up to 20 to 30 seconds to get your blade out. The Trion blades won't even eject from the much touted blade ejecting system at all. The shaft on these is thicker than the new Carvex blades. And you can't change any blade without taking out the splinter guard first. The ejecting mechanism to shoot blades out is obviously there because the blades run so damn hot you won't want to touch them. When I need to change to a different kind of blade, I just might want to still use the one I was just using and not go pick it off the floor. Using the Carvex on a guide rail means you have to first switch baseplates first. The P1cc just has the grooves on each baseplate as is. And then there's the other advantages the P1cc has over the Carvex like stability, durability, depth of cut, the option to reversible blades, ... The Carvex probably isn't a bad saw, in fact it might be a very good one compared to everything else out there. But it's finicky. In operation, it just seems like a lot of faffing about with this and that to (hopefully) get it set up just right. Because it is finicky that way. And then, eventually, you can make a cut. I can't be bothered with all that, when I'm using my tools, I'm trying to get stuff done. I call that a tool that's not designed properly at the core and they threw in a whole bunch of extra items to try and fix it/make up for it. Now, is it all that dramatic, of course not. And the tool has it's merits, like the lighter weight, plug-it cord, additional bases. But, when I'm working I don't need a finicky tool to struggle with. I know it's fun for a lot of guys to manipulate their tool. Switch a base here, attach this there, etc. It's fun for me too, In the weekend, at home. When I'm working I just want to get stuff done and get a move on. The P1cc just gets my stuff done a lot faster, easier and smarter Opinions will vary
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Sept 3, 2013 14:00:23 GMT -5
I'm still debating myself, I love my MT55 track saw and I know I will get the same quality and performance with the P1CC Jigsaw but it seems that you get a little bit more from the Carvex for the money, with the accessories the circle cutter its better, I really don't care about the angle plate,but the other plates would seem to work for me, the light on the Carvex looks nice also the fact that the cord can be lifted up in case it gets in the way, but then the blade adjustment on the Carvex and weaker motor keeps tipping me over to the P1CC. I know...there are pros and cons with each...the real answer would be to get them both and have the best of all worlds...in terms of power, even though the Mafell is more powerful by far, I think that the brushless motor operates more efficiently and therefore has good power for what a jigsaw is capable of. Might not cut quite as fast. I have never bogged a jigsaw down, even lesser brands. Not having a fence or the ability to use the guide rail stop and adjust it to the gibs of your rail is the biggest downside of the Carvex to me. Seems like a big oversight on Festool's part. But, most jigsaw users probably do not use the tool in that manor as there are other tools better for the application. Scot
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char
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by char on Sept 3, 2013 15:20:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the inputs, I don't see myself using the Jigsaw on the guide rail I have the MT55 for straight cuts I will be using it more for curves half/full circles up to 3-1/2" thick it has to cut as square as possible and the faster the better.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Sept 3, 2013 15:58:00 GMT -5
When I talked with TimberWolf it was three years through the manufacturer and the dealer would guarantee for one year. I just got off the phone with Marc at Timberwolf. He told me the warranty in the US is through them and it is one year only, not three years. I guess that is only in Europe. Not sure if it is that big of an issue as these tools look solid and if something goes wrong, odds are it will happen in the first year of ownership in most instances. Scot
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Post by GhostFist on Sept 3, 2013 16:15:21 GMT -5
if you have a trion already, the only thing extra you're getting with the carvex is the disco light, and the circle cutter. Is it worth a complete upgrade? Might as well keep the trion.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Sept 3, 2013 16:22:41 GMT -5
I have to agree with ghostfish there is no point in upgrading for the sake of it unless your jigsaw stopped working
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