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Post by aas on Jul 11, 2019 13:27:18 GMT -5
It depends what you are sanding... I have the 5650 (5,0mm vibration diameter), that came with the 150mm and 125mm pads as you mention. For sanding edges, the 125mm pad wins; for large areas the 150mm wins!.. 125mm is small for large flat areas. I also have the 625cv (150mm pad with 2,5mm vibration diameter) - this is for fine finish work.
The Deros is a beauty to handle, if the rep says it's difficult to handle, he has either tried a faulty one... or not tried one at all, it can be handled with one finger even on coarse grits.
I'd say get the 150mm and add on the 125mm pad as the rep suggested. You just need to decided between the 2,5mm, 5,0mm or 8,0mm versions - go for the 5,0mm for general work, it's impressive for fine work if using the right paper/mesh and going through the grits correctly.
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Post by kraftt on Jul 11, 2019 20:33:58 GMT -5
Thanks aas , yes I painted a more knowledgeable image of the rep than the actual conversation warranted. I'm also thinking 5mm throw is the best bet for someone starting out too.
Mirka USA is a bit out of touch, the rep was eager to tell me all about the 'brand new' Leros drywall sander coming out and I didn't have the heart to tell him it's been out for years, so I needed to audit his other info.
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Post by huntsgemein on Aug 11, 2019 7:58:22 GMT -5
As you've undoubtedly realised from your collective DEROS purchases, it comes bundled with an additional/accessory counterweight for the sander's main shaft. The idea is to exchange or add the additional counterweight to compensate for the different offset centrifugal inertia characteristics of the 2 bundled platen sizes. As with the 3 different DEOS platen sizes too I believe: they can be purchased from the relevant parts diagrams.
Unless you actually use said counterweight, of course you'll experience undue vibration. Some trial & error may be required to achieve the smoothest results. Those clever Scandi design boffins have gone to great lengths to both monitor & counter vibration with their sanders. As a last resort you could actually read the tool's manual. Haven't actually done so myself, but I'm reliably informed that they occasionally contain useful information!
I have 4 Mirkas: 5 & 8mm DEROS & small & large(ish) DEOS, plus an additional Delmeq large delta clone of the DEOS, now available in genuine Mirka livery. This collection is simply superior to any other equivalents that I've ever used. I have already disposed of all but 1 of my 8 odd Festo/ol sanders as a consequence. The Mirka, Metabo, Rupes, Indasa, Sumake & Carsystem clones are really that good in my opinion. Actually gave away the larger DEOS as its long thin platen is actually yet another abrasive size (70 x 200??) that I don't really want to stock. It's apparently more of a plasterer's/painter's sander size that I don't actually readily require.
I have 2 caveats however: firstly, I've never been a huge fan of Plug-It type power cables. It introduces yet another potentially problematic connector into what should be a pure, uncluttered & uncontaminated electron flow. Although I've never yet actually experienced any dodgy connections from my own Mirkas, I have had problems in the past from Festool's equivalent. I prefer to keep all relevant sanders permanently attached to the vac through a simple power board & simply exchange vac hoses, or even use a vac hose Y-adapter instead. Less (or in my case no) plug/unplug cycles will hopefully preserve a nice clean uncontaminated connection. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence on the interweb of user's difficulties with dodgy Mirka power cable connections. Both the Mirka & Metabo use proprietory Plug-Its; AFAIK the others (def. the Delmeq) don't.
Secondly, whilst I do particularly like the top on/off & variable speed paddle on the Mirka & its clones, I still sometimes inadvertently set it down inverted (switching it on) when all I want to do is to exchange abrasives. The fix? Make a simple plywood template/abrasive garage preloaded with gritside-down abrasives. Tear off the used one & press down on the garage for a new abrasive correctly aligned & installed. I never use the paddle to vary the speed: it's nuts to try to hold the paddle down part-way! Use the speed switches instead, & the paddle as an on/off control.
I also sometimes get a bit tired having to hold the paddle down constantly. As a CTS sufferer, I like to change my grip often to reduce strain & vibration on similar muscle groups in my hands & susceptible right wrist's carpal tunnel. I sometimes change hands too. In comparison to other EC sanders (Festool's EC sanders for example are 20% heavier, and the Rotex 150 over twice the weight, albeit slightly faster in Rotary action!) the Mirka & clones are both featherweights & ergonomic delights. To keep the paddle depressed, a short length of insulation tape is a useful quick-release remedy that allows me to vary my grip widely.
As you can tell, I'm a bit of a fanboy. Not without reason 'though I might add. To me the Mirka collection makes most, if not all other sanders that I've ever owned or used seem rather primitive & crude in comparison. At < 1kg each, it just makes sense for extended sanding sessions. I'm still keeping my monster Holz Her/Festo Belt/Frame sander, & little Bosch GDA delta and a couple of 80mm Metabo SXE400s, but only because they're (now) rarely used specialist sanders for occasional small or inaccessible jobs (mouldings, concavities & other fiddly bits) that are't within the Mirka's gambit.
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Post by kraftt on Aug 11, 2019 12:15:22 GMT -5
Was completely unaware of the rebranded/clones, thank you. Other than being permanently corded and the shape of the paddle are there any features that the clones add or don’t have compared to Mirka oem? (I think one touted a patented cooling fan, but most likely it’s Mirka’s patent.)
Besides the more appealing color schemes the clones also appear to be sold for less from what I gather after a quick online search ?
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Post by huntsgemein on Aug 11, 2019 20:15:23 GMT -5
Was completely unaware of the rebranded/clones, thank you. Other than being permanently corded and the shape of the paddle are there any features that the clones add or don’t have compared to Mirka oem? (I think one touted a patented cooling fan, but most likely it’s Mirka’s patent.) Besides the more appealing color schemes the clones also appear to be sold for less from what I gather after a quick online search ? I only have the 4 Mirkas (now only 3) & a single Delmeq, so can't really comment authoratatively. Suffice it to say that key parts (platens, padsavers, intermediate pads, possibly motors & superstructural components too & of course abrasives) will be interchangeable. To the poster concerned with abrasive life, I can only comment on my own experience. HD Ace abrasives, with high ceramic content, are also available in 40 & 60 grits, & have adequate performance & life. Paint stripping is extremely hard on any tool &/or abrasive. Coarser grits will both last longer & (obviously) abrade faster than finer ones in stripping multiple paint layers. Their net/mesh structure will also be much less prone to clogging from heat buildup & "plastication" or "liquefaction" of paint residues, always a problem for more solid paper & cloth backed abrasives. Irrespective of hardware or software choice, it's simple common sense to exchange the abrasive as soon as its performance drops. No abrasive lasts well paint stripping. As the Mirka & Abranet families & their imitators & clones are particularly suited (& used as such) in the automotive paint refinishing industry, and by professional painters & plasterers, I'd suggest that you'd probably be extremely hard-pressed to find better. Any issues of abrasive longevity may actually be more about the substrate (i.e. paint layer's) hardness or abrasiveness than any abrasive inadequacy. Appropriate choice is the key: size, type and grit. For instance, I don't use Abranet Ace belts, simply because a belt sander's extraction aerodynamics aren't predicated around mesh abrasives. However, multihole platens (i.e. Mirka et. al.), are purposefully designed for mesh. Sanding belts from Flexovit are available down to 24 grit, and equivalent cloth-backed discs for grinders down to a finger-shredding 16 g, and paper & cloth multihole discs in 125 & 150 mm diameters down to 24 g from at least some manufacturers. Whilst purposefully suited and designed for mesh abrasives, there's really no reason why Mirkas & their clones can't be used with appropriately hole-punched conventional abrasives either. I often use cheaper paper 40g rectangles, deltas & discs with my own tools. I also use smaller 75mm rounds & 93mm delta mesh abrasives in my small Bosch & Metabo sanders too, with pleasing results.
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Post by aas on Aug 12, 2019 0:32:43 GMT -5
I was using Mirka Abranet with my 3 Mirka's - have recently switched to the amazing SIA NET 7500 Ceramic - I believe SIA is owned by Bosch. This was an 'off-the-record' recommendation by someone fairly high up the chain from one of my solid surface manufacturers... I'd never heard of it before, I'm not disappointed. Abranet was his second choice.
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Post by matchesder on Sept 13, 2020 10:29:28 GMT -5
The EVA 115 is pretty vibration free. No unloaded, and some slight stuff on lower speeds where the abrading 'paper' seems to get traction before going in the reverse direction. It was 1:20 to 1-1/2 hours pretty much continuous and my hands were not numb. In fact the cold beer in them felt great at the end. I can second that. After I was impressed by the lack of vibration from the UVA (rectangle base), I felt the need for the EVA. I mainly sand wood and oiled wood in conjunction with Abranet at full speed. I found they don’t behave as well with Granat paper. I think there is a more direct coupling due to shorter Velcro hair and lack of protection pad. If held at the handle, there is sometimes absolutely no vibration. Vibration in the vacuum hose is greater than at the handle. Some vibration seems to be conducted back via the hose through the power cord. It really is impressive. I’d like to compare it to the ETS EC and the Deros (or one of its siblings).
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iban
Full Member
 
Posts: 111
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Post by iban on Sept 15, 2020 9:02:56 GMT -5
I don' t know about the EVA but the Deros is very good with vibration. Compared with the Bosch GEX 125-150 which has a vibration of 2,5 m/s² (mafell declare similar value) I could feel noticeably less vibration with the Mirka. Even if the mafell is better than the Bosch (I'm sure it is) I don't think it will be much better than the Mirka in terms of vibration
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Post by matchesder on Sept 16, 2020 3:51:02 GMT -5
Iban, do you have 2.5 or 5 mm stroke Deros (or even 8)? Mirka states 2.4 m/s^2 for the 2.5 mm and 3.4 for the 5 mm stroke. The GEX only has 2 mm stroke. These numbers come with a relativly high uncertainty of typically 1.5 m/s^2.
Since Mirka has an app to have a look at the recorded vibration, maybe they are very conservative with theyre numbers? I'm not familiar with how this is measured but I'm shore it is somehow standardized, possibly with a little bit of room for interpretation/variation.
Mafell yust states "less than 2.5 m/s^2" for all of the sanders. I have a Mirka DEOS 353CV stated as 2.6 m/s^2 and it feels more than both the Mafells, still very good.
Interestingly Festool states 4.8 m/s^2 for the ETS EC 150 both 3 and 5 mm.
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Post by holmz on Sept 16, 2020 6:56:29 GMT -5
The DEOS apparently has a Bluetooth and an App that tells one when to stop sanding. So even IT types can get in on the fun.
The outside of the French doors looked daggy, so the Haus Boss said refinish it. So I sanded the doors and frame and used the Mafell UVA 115 the Deros, and the hand sanding block for the edges. Then whacked on stain and epifanes.
Now the inside looks bad compared to the outside.
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iban
Full Member
 
Posts: 111
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Post by iban on Sept 17, 2020 17:07:36 GMT -5
Iban, do you have 2.5 or 5 mm stroke Deros (or even 8)? Mirka states 2.4 m/s^2 for the 2.5 mm and 3.4 for the 5 mm stroke. The GEX only has 2 mm stroke. These numbers come with a relativly high uncertainty of typically 1.5 m/s^2. Since Mirka has an app to have a look at the recorded vibration, maybe they are very conservative with theyre numbers? I'm not familiar with how this is measured but I'm shore it is somehow standardized, possibly with a little bit of room for interpretation/variation. Mafell yust states "less than 2.5 m/s^2" for all of the sanders. I have a Mirka DEOS 353CV stated as 2.6 m/s^2 and it feels more than both the Mafells, still very good. Interestingly Festool states 4.8 m/s^2 for the ETS EC 150 both 3 and 5 mm. Deros 5mm stroke and the bosch is 4mm orbit diameter, not 2mm. I didn't work with either for hours but the Mirka looks kilometres ahead of the of bosch
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Post by matchesder on Sept 18, 2020 14:35:58 GMT -5
Ah ok. I must have looked at the wrong grinder.
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