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Post by holmz on Sept 16, 2018 2:02:39 GMT -5
Righteo... I was referring to the saw's power and almost no torque (no power) is used for cutting signboard.
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Post by papalazarou on Sept 16, 2018 17:10:31 GMT -5
There's a newer model of the one you've shown. I have the iPulse L-1635, with Hepa filters fitted - as I wanted the adjustable suction and the best filters. The newer model of the M class - www.starmix.de/en/products/wetdry-vacuum-cleaners/craft/vacuum-cleaners-ipulse/ipulse-m-1635-safe- has a 2 level speed control. If adjusting the suction isn't an issue for you, the metabo model you've cited is basically the older Starmix model, but rated at 1400 Watts, not 1600, which translates to stronger suction. Where can I buy one of these from though? Can’t seem to find anywhere in the UK that sells them. Anyone have a link? Thanks.
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simon
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Sept 16, 2018 18:32:01 GMT -5
Arbortech Allsaw Online Shop tel. 01432 346 838 Kristie Ching is very helpful, Neil Humphris if you have any technical questions.
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Post by papalazarou on Oct 1, 2018 6:52:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies everyone. UK voltage is 230v +10% or -6%, so 216v to 253v. 13 amps at 230v gives you 2990w - you should be OK. Don't bother with the H unless you are dealing with asbestos etc., get the M, especially if you may cut MDF or similar. You'll be hard pressed to get a better vac for the money than the iPulse M. I'm still umming and ahhing about H vs M. Allsaw have said that if we're going to be cutting any MDF then they'd recommend H class but the bags all seem to be M class anyway. We don't use a lot of MDF but there will be the odd bit here and there. I'm thinking H would cover us if we do cut anything more toxic in the future. Or am I just overpaying for something unnecessarily? We won't be going anywhere near asbestos. Is there any downside of going with the H model? Can I put M filters in the H and make it an M and vice versa? Just quite a lot of money to get buyers remorse and wish we'd bought the other one. Thanks.
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Post by aas on Oct 1, 2018 15:08:38 GMT -5
Yes you're paying for something unnecessary... H is for Asbestos, Bio-hazards, etc., and it has to be possible to remove and dispose of the disposable bags without coming into contact with the hazard. It's for cleaning up germs, carcinogens etc... not things you 'cut'.
MDF is not a hazard at this level.
Get the M class, it will do all you need for about 10% less outlay, cheaper filters, bags etc.
You'll only get buyers remorse if you start doing crime scene or operating theatre clean-ups!
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Post by huntsgemein on Oct 2, 2018 2:24:59 GMT -5
This is my personal take on the various models & "grades" of Starmix vacs. I'm not suggesting you take any particular choice or path at all. Your circumstances will differ from mine. These are my personal preferences, not any recommendation to you.
I like the H class vacs personally. For variety of reasons. Firstly, I have some residual asbestos building materials in my place. Most older buildings do. From water pipe lagging, to old composite roofing & siding. Should I ever intend to work on any other Haz-Mat declared workplace gainfully for some type of employment - even casually - H class extraction equipment is of course mandatory.
H class equipment. Certified thus. Not a hepa filtered M or L class vac fitted with the appropriate bags &/or filtration, but the duly certificated real deal. Anything else, irrespective of how effective it may be, is simply illegal. In this ludicrously litigious bureaucratic minefield currently imposed on workplaces, one would be unwise to attempt to subvert or sidestep this legislative requirement. Leave that type of caper for the cowboys. You can always legitimately substitute filters & bags downwards through the grades, just never upwards.
Secondly, their other vacs are simply too powerful. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Who needs 1600watts of suction? Or even 1400? It's insane. I'm collecting dust, shavings & swarf, not stainless steel ball bearings, nails or marbles. My current vacs are rated at 1000W (two) & 1200W. Except in extremis, I almost invariably turn them all down for the majority of my sanding & cutting duties. Only connected to an SCMS, planer or router table would any of my vacs ever see full power. OK. Maybe for vacuuming the workspace or maybe (where applicable) blowing out tools & down sanded surfaces, but that's all. I had a small Bosch lunchbox vac/air turbine sander setup with 1400W (Ventaro) which was just awful, & didn't find much use at all before being donated to charity. Too much power, too short in the hose, & too easily clogged in the dustbag. Clogging = low airflow = abysmal air turbine performance = woeful sanding speeds & power.
That's the other problem with high wattages: dustbag clogging. Fine dusts readily clog the interstices in filter & bag membranes. The higher the pressure (a product of wattage), or finer the dust, the more rapid & "terminal" the blockage becomes. I once tried to vacuum up about 50+ years of household dust from a vacant upstairs flat. Impossible. Bags & filters clogged in mere seconds. Whilst no expert, I'm guessing why Starmix choose to limit the wattage of their "Asbest Safe" vacs to 1200w (or 75% of the power of their lesser models) is that increased wattage means increased internal pressure within, which increases the risk of leakage & aerosolisation of hazardous materials.
The third, & for me most important reason why lower powered vacs are best is that I can safely connect much more powerful ancillary equipment. The maximum permissible load allowed for most mains appliances (& purpose built power circuits in domestic, commercial situations) is 15 Amperes. Realistically, in fact, domestic loads should theoretically be limited to 10A. Starmix manufacture their vacs to cope with combined loads of 15 A @ 240V. Dr. Ohm's law translates this to 3600W. 1200W of vac power, & 2400W of attached load. This allows for my Metabo 254mm saw bench, DW Radial Arm saw, Bosch Glide SCMS, the DW626 in my router table, & even a big dust extracted Bosch, DW or Makita (but not Wacker Neuson) pavement breaker. Or even a big 85mm Mafell saw some day too. None of these tools can be safely used on the more powerful "lesser" Starmix vacs without potentially hazardous overload conditions heating up the mains cables both within the tools or the building's mains wiring circuitry.
There's yet another reason why the H class Asbest Safe machines are "best" for me: economic. The "best" range comes as standard with top 'o the range antistatic hoses, full floor tool & stainless steel wand array & filters attached & installed. All these are extra on the cheaper models. So any perceived savings are not necessarily as realistic after all. Marketplaces differ, but this is the way they're sold in the domestic German market anyway!
Finally, a bigger hose, say substituting a 35mm for a 27mm hose, or (for router tables, sawbenches etc) a 50mm for a 35mm, will allow much more effective dust collection performance than a 33% increase in input power will. Small hoses are great for low powered sanding operations, mid sizes are for me ideal for most portable cutting, routing & planing operations, and the 2" hoses work great on smaller stationary or semi-stationary equipment. Pressure, velocity & turbulence decreases, but airflow tends to increase with an upwards increment (of about 100% in these cases) in cross sectional area.
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simon
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by simon on Oct 2, 2018 10:27:20 GMT -5
A lot of good points by Huntsgemein, and those were my thoughts too, re the lower wattage on the Asbestos safe models.
I would have gone the same route, but felt that greater flexibility in choosing suction power, better suited my purposes.
Just wish someone would come up with a smaller model, which has the same iPulse tech, but easier to manoeuvre and carry
when necessary - when the bags full (and they really do fill up to capacity) these extractors weigh quite a bit.
I've sent you a couple of PMs Papalazarou, might be useful for you to have a read.
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Post by papalazarou on Oct 4, 2018 15:45:21 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input guys.
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Post by jimbouk on Oct 20, 2018 12:59:25 GMT -5
Anyone know who the mirka vacs are made by? Any experience with them.
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Post by thehandyman on Oct 20, 2018 13:01:35 GMT -5
Anyone know who the mirka vacs are made by? Any experience with them. Nilfisk Attix 33. Just buy the Attix.
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Post by holmz on Nov 15, 2018 1:33:47 GMT -5
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Post by thehandyman on Nov 15, 2018 7:15:44 GMT -5
Acme Tools sells the Nilfisk. This is good because they regularly have discount codes which work on the Nilfisk.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Nov 15, 2018 8:56:06 GMT -5
I have the Nilfisk Attix 33/44 and the new Mafell S-35M and they’re both great vacs. The Attix 44 gives you more capacity in a portable package that also gives you the option of a Systainer/L-BOXX docking station, whereas the S-35M is very sleek, mobile, and only pulses the filters when necessary. Right now I’m using my Attix 44 in the shop while the S-35M rides around in the van for on-site use. If I could only have one I’d probably choose the S-35M. If you’re using a larger sander for your floor, you may want to consider the Oneida Dust Cobra. I use mine for tools that require a 36mm or 50mm/2” hose such as router table, Erika/table saw, thickness planer, etc..., but Oneida actively markets the Dust Cobra for use with larger sanding machines, and its performance specs (245 com @ 23” water column) are measured at the end of a 25’ long 2” diameter hose, whereas most manufacturers measure their performance at the inlet of the vac. Plus, it ships with a HEPA filter as standard equipment. www.oneida-air.com/industrial-dust-cobra-17-gal-cyclonic-hepa-vacuum-kit
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Post by thehandyman on Nov 15, 2018 9:02:53 GMT -5
As a note, the Mafell S-35M extractor is the updated model with 157 cfm.
Metabo has integrated the new updated Starmix model with 157 cfm as well, Metabo ASR 35 ACP HEPA vacuum.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Nov 15, 2018 9:09:31 GMT -5
As a note, the Mafell S-35M extractor is the updated model with 157 cfm. Metabo has integrated the new updated Starmix model with 157 cfm as well, Metabo ASR 35 ACP HEPA vacuum. I had heard that Metabo was updating their vac as well, good to hear it’s in effect! A note of caution though, buyers would want to make sure they’re getting the updated version (or getting a discount on the older 130 cfm version), being aware of whether they’re receiving the HEPA version or not, and I believe that the Metabo is still shipping with a non-anti static hose. The benefit of the Mafell version is that you’re guaranteed to get the updated motor, HEPA filters, and anti static hose.
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