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Post by MrToolJunkie on Jun 10, 2014 22:47:30 GMT -5
Why did Mafell design this with no front handle? Does anyone know? Not that I use it with my TS75, but I do from time to time.
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Post by differentshades on Jun 11, 2014 6:23:52 GMT -5
Yep, I sent him a link to that video and also the bosch equvalent! any ways, they have asked that I send the saw and tracks to Germany, for their techs to look at via NMA.
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Post by GhostFist on Jun 11, 2014 9:08:26 GMT -5
Let us know how they reply
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 11, 2014 11:37:32 GMT -5
I personally think something is getting lost in translation from English to german. I had a look at how my saws tilt around the splinter guard on the track relates to the saw blade or riving knife. At 90 all of the blade touches the splinter guard as the saw is the beveled the top part of the splinter guard the blade comes away from the splinter guard while at the bottom of the splinter guard the blade or riving knife practically kiss the splinter guard. Giving the 0 point. If that makes sense. I'm wondering if mafell are thinking that you mean all of the blade should be on the splinter guard all the time no matter the angle. Which technically it can't apart from 90. I would maybe send allan hotham an email he is the guy who did the videos. As far as I know he not connected to mafell or nma to discuss the products mafell or bosch. I'm wondering if there has being a batch of bases that have being machined either too thin or too thick
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 11, 2014 11:46:30 GMT -5
Why did Mafell design this with no front handle? Does anyone know? Not that I use it with my TS75, but I do from time to time. Font really know but when I'm using the saw on the track I always have my left hand on the track and the right on the saw. Maybe it is expected that one hand will always be on track
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Post by differentshades on Jun 11, 2014 12:43:08 GMT -5
I personally think something is getting lost in translation from English to german. I had a look at how my saws tilt around the splinter guard on the track relates to the saw blade or riving knife. At 90 all of the blade touches the splinter guard as the saw is the beveled the top part of the splinter guard the blade comes away from the splinter guard while at the bottom of the splinter guard the blade or riving knife practically kiss the splinter guard. Giving the 0 point. If that makes sense. I'm wondering if mafell are thinking that you mean all of the blade should be on the splinter guard all the time no matter the angle. Which technically it can't apart from 90. I would maybe send allan hotham an email he is the guy who did the videos. As far as I know he not connected to mafell or nma to discuss the products mafell or bosch. I'm wondering if there has being a batch of bases that have being machined either too thin or too thick Makes sense, that's what I expected when I bought the saw. i told mafell the following When the machine is set to 90, i cut the rubber, and each cut after is exactly on that line. Now if I set the saw at 45 and cut, there is approximately 2 mm gap. According to the video, i should really only have to cut the rubber once, after which, if i cut at 90 or 45, the saw blade should just touch the rubber. If this was not the case, then I would have to use a new rubber each time i bevel the saw. The following photo shows the gap left if i do 45 degrees. that means that if i mark the board, put the guide on the marks I think that you maybe right about the translation, but have been assured by NMA that Denis from mafell understands this. anyway, as things stand, the original saw has/ will be sent to Germany, while I use the one I have as a loan one, when it's been looked at an hopefully fixed, they will do a swap. i understand your point about a possible dodgy batch. However the machine ID for the first saw was early this year, while the one I have at present is mid last year! i'll keep posting.
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Post by differentshades on Jun 11, 2014 12:46:12 GMT -5
Can't seem to find allan hotham email, any chance you could P.M me
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 11, 2014 12:59:12 GMT -5
I know that on the mt it pulls the saw blade 1/10 of a mill in and when the cut is at full depth the blade moves back out 1/10. Just a thought
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 11, 2014 13:37:11 GMT -5
I wonder when you make the first cut of the splinter guard instead of doing 5mm as the instructions say maybe do full depth. If that would give you a different conclusion. Just thinking things through as I don't have the mt55 myself I can't try try my thoughts
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Post by differentshades on Jun 11, 2014 19:36:18 GMT -5
I have one track that I have not trimmed the splinter guard from. I can probably try it on that, but would rather wait and see what Mafell can do about the saw first. In my opinion, it has to be something to do with the way the saw pivots, as you change the angle the saw just moves out to much, and maybe just needs tuning so that it doesn't.
Any way, I'll keep this post updated.
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Post by 7 on Jun 11, 2014 21:22:08 GMT -5
Why did Mafell design this with no front handle? Does anyone know? Not that I use it with my TS75, but I do from time to time. I think this might be one of those cases where you are used to the tool you started on so anything different seems a bit odd. For example I like the blade on the left side on my circular saws and the blade on the right side seems "wrong" to me only because that is what I started with and have used for years. The only track saw I have ever owned is the MT55 and I saw the Festool saw at woodcraft and thought it was weird that they thought a handle would be useful. I bet the front handle would feel strange to me since I am so used to my saw not having one. Not sure if this line of reasoning makes any sense to you, just my take on it. I do commonly use the small thumb indent on the front left of the saw base sometimes even when I don't have the saw beveled & I like that feature.
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Post by 7 on Jun 15, 2014 0:45:53 GMT -5
differentshades & others interested- On the subject of the kerf line being different on the 45 deg cut vs 90 deg. I might be missing something but it seems to me that the line is always going to move a slight amount no matter which saw is used simply because of the nature of a bevel itself. It is oddly difficult to describe in writing why it happens but you can easily show it with kerf marks in sample cuts- the saw beveled on a 45 deg leaves a wider kerf than a 90 deg cut. An easy demonstration is to take a scrap board to a miter saw, make 4 cuts- standard 90 deg, 22.5 deg, 45 deg, and 60 deg. The 60 deg cut will be almost double the width of the 90 deg plumb cut.
I realize your main concern has much more to do with the splinter strip being an accurate cut line to place against your marks and have that as the actual cut line instead of 2mm off. I think on the Mafell MT55 they got it as close as they can while still accommodating all the possible degrees from -1 through 48 deg. I would be very surprised if any other brand is dead on. I would guess the this is a case of choosing between two evils- 1- having the splinter guard occasionally hit when the saw needs routine maintenance types of adjustments or 2- miss the splinter guard by a hair at all angles but not enough to allow splintered/ chattered edges.
Any other thoughts? Does this jive with anyone else's thinking or just seem like senseless rambling? I can do some tests and post pics tomorrow, its late tonight after a long work day.
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Post by differentshades on Jun 15, 2014 10:34:57 GMT -5
Thanks for that 7 i understand where your coming from and the logic behind it. But, and I think it is a big but, when you tilt the mt55, the pivot point pseudo changes, the blade moves sideways, the amount depends on the extent of the bevel. It was designed to do this, so that th cut line will remain constant. I understand that the cut side furthest from the splinter guard will be wider, but the side closest to the splinter guard shoud be in contact or brush against the splinter guard.
when you tilt the saw through the various angles, you see that the the blade body, shifts away from the splinter guard, it needs to do this otherwise it might cut into the splinter guard. Whatever mechanism is used to move the blade to the right, seems, in my case anyway, to move a tad to far. I'm sure there is some sort of adjustment that can stop it moving out to far.
if you take a look at wrightwoodworks reply on page 7, it seems to be working on his I think kss saw
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 15, 2014 12:33:41 GMT -5
Yeah it's working on my kss fine just curious if other members with the mt55 have had the same issue. On my older kss there is more slop than on the cordless version to me it's not a problem for the simple reason when I make the cut the end result is still correct do there is no need to worry about it. Now if someone else is to use they might have an issue and find difficult with the cuts where I don't. On the tilt mechanism the pin in the smaller arc is what is meant to keep the cut line constant on the rail. If the vast or pin is slightly out there my guess is it could throw up a problem
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Post by garch on Jun 15, 2014 17:57:57 GMT -5
Yeah it's working on my kss fine just curious if other members with the mt55 have had the same issue. On my older kss there is more slop than on the cordless version to me it's not a problem for the simple reason when I make the cut the end result is still correct do there is no need to worry about it. Now if someone else is to use they might have an issue and find difficult with the cuts where I don't. On the tilt mechanism the pin in the smaller arc is what is meant to keep the cut line constant on the rail. If the vast or pin is slightly out there my guess is it could throw up a problem My mt55 works just the same as my KSS400 as far as cutting right up to the splinter guard on the F tracks, at any angle I set. I've never had any issues with any of my saws.
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