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Post by aas on Oct 22, 2018 6:24:12 GMT -5
I hope the Metabo HPT tools are better quality than the Metabo tools.
I don't understand what they're doing - there is the Cordless Alliance System - why are Metabo not pushing this platform and taking this multivolt with mains adaptors?.. instead they are removing the Hitachi branding that has always had a good reputation, maybe not technologically advanced, but a good trade tool - and replacing it with Metabo HPT - they even put a link on their site 'Looking for Metabo?'... and it takes you to the Metabo site - so yes, they know already it is confusing... but I'm sure someone, somewhere in an expensive suit has decided this makes sense!
Just to confuse a bit more, the Hitachi Power Tools site in France has switched to Hikoki - with the same multivolt tools as Metabo HPT - just all the tools labelled Hikoki!
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Post by thehandyman on Oct 22, 2018 12:34:25 GMT -5
I hope the Metabo HPT tools are better quality than the Metabo tools. I don't understand what they're doing - there is the Cordless Alliance System - why are Metabo not pushing this platform and taking this multivolt with mains adaptors?.. instead they are removing the Hitachi branding that has always had a good reputation, maybe not technologically advanced, but a good trade tool - and replacing it with Metabo HPT - they even put a link on their site 'Looking for Metabo?'... and it takes you to the Metabo site - so yes, they know already it is confusing... but I'm sure someone, somewhere in an expensive suit has decided this makes sense! Just to confuse a bit more, the Hitachi Power Tools site in France has switched to Hikoki - with the same multivolt tools as Metabo HPT - just all the tools labelled Hikoki! Hitachi Power tools was sold off and could no longer use Hitachi as branding. They had to separate the tool business from the electronics and other side. Hitachi worldwide is switching to Hikoki. Hitachi North America, in a genius move, decided to change name to Metabo HPT. Dumb decision. Ah well, can't do anything. Hitachi owns Metabo as a brand under its umbrella. I hope Metabo gets MultiVolt technology to incorporate into the tools.
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Post by henrun on Oct 22, 2018 13:01:10 GMT -5
I was at the Metabo HPT release event. The tools were really impressive. The battery uses 21700 cells. Most tools available now in NA - online, Menards, select Lowe's Cordless table saw is based off the corded Hitachi out now. Will be available early 2019. The show stopper was the Japanese built 7 1/4" miter saw. This will be available late 2019 as it's waiting on UL certification and other such details. Pricing will be around $1000. It's on another level of precision and made the 10" miter they are releasing feel like a toy. That 7 1/2 inch mitre saw is the one I am waiting on. With some luck it will surface sooner in Europe - they usually do. Nice to hear about your impressions and good to get some confirmation on what to expect.
After a decade long stint with Festool I have now scaled down my Fessy line up quite a bit - though I still have a few tools left I am almost done with the 18V line up. Just kept the BHC, DRC and C18 drills as a second fix/installers kit.
During the fire sale on some Hitachi gear I picked up a hammer drill with interchangeable chucks, two of the impacts, a multicutter, the angle grinder, jigsaw and later on the drywall gun and a very nifty LED lamp. I am quite impressed with the kit so far. The jigsaw I bought reluctantly as I usually don't like the D-handle but after actually using it I am actually liking it - no problems running it under sheetgoods blade up and I even got used to the variable speed trigger (no constant on/off switch). The Festool gear I sold off paid for the entire Hitachi kit - with some spare change.
I didn't get along too well with the Festool drywall gun in the long run and I didn't think the Hitachi looked the part but after using it for some time I really think it works so much better than the Festool one. Replacing the Festool drywall gun and the Carvex with Hitachis "cheaper" counterpart was a no brainer in the end.
Ergonomics are first rate for me and the Sparky has borrowed the hammer drill from me a few times and he is very impressed with it after doing some holesawing in brickwall and some larger diameter drilling. It sure looks the same as the sweet Metabo KHA 24 18LTX. I have the Vac attachment which works very well - though swinging it up to the wall one handed is quite a challenge.
There are some nitpicks with some of the machines in the range and I was hoping I would warm up to the 18V nailer - if going by performance only it is one of the best on the market but it is a bit bulky and heavy and requires at least a SYS III to pack it away. Had they managed to reduce the size a mere cm in each direction if would pack away nicely. But, it is simply too heavy for me.
The regular 18V drill/screwdriver is very nice but the chuck does have a tendency to drop drill bits after some drilling - no matter how hard you tighten them. It has a "quick" short turn release and I think the sheer momentum of the drill in second gear works it loose. That is a bummer though I don't use the machine that ofter since I do most of my fastening with the Hitachi triple hammer impact. I swing it all day and I don't feel a thing in my arms - not from going numb but by sheer ergonomic excellency.
I've heard people say that Hitachi has been "underrated" for a very long time - and same can be said about Metabo and just about any brand I guess. Considering the merger with Metabo and the apparent DNA in some of the HiKoki/Metabo cross overs I feel confident buying HiKoki from now on. The firesale continues and I have the HiKoki 1/2" 305nM impact on order and a shearer too.
As for the coming mitre saw it will be Multivolt and the battery will work downstream with the 18V gear but I think I will stick with 18V for now and get one, perhaps two Multivolt batteries and the a/c adapter and settle for that. If they would make any smaller batteries I would consider the Multivolt impact but as it stands right now I am happy with the 18V performance across the board.
Whatever they bring out in the future will see if I keep going that route.
I will say that for battery performance Hitachi and most others are a bit behind Metabo in their offerings. I do have to top up the batteries a bit more often but since the Hitachi batteries are being phased out for new offerings with battery indicators the 3Ah are very cheap and run time is good enough.
Since HiKoki doesn't offer any tracksaws I will continue on with Mafell/Metabo for most of the sawing needs. The MT55cc, the KSS40, KSS50 and the Metabo multicutter and jigsaw are great together and hard to beat. I prematurely dropped the Metabo KGS 216 sliding mitre saw and should have kept it until the Hitachi offering arrives but I thought I could source up a Hitachi 6" sliding mitre saw which is more in line with what I need/want but then they became unavailable outside of Japan during the name change so I don't have a battery mitre saw at the moment. At the current build I am almost three months in and still haven't needed a mitre saw. Ok, some cuts with the KSS saws required a little lateral thinking.
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Post by aas on Oct 22, 2018 13:56:59 GMT -5
I hope the Metabo HPT tools are better quality than the Metabo tools. I don't understand what they're doing - there is the Cordless Alliance System - why are Metabo not pushing this platform and taking this multivolt with mains adaptors?.. instead they are removing the Hitachi branding that has always had a good reputation, maybe not technologically advanced, but a good trade tool - and replacing it with Metabo HPT - they even put a link on their site 'Looking for Metabo?'... and it takes you to the Metabo site - so yes, they know already it is confusing... but I'm sure someone, somewhere in an expensive suit has decided this makes sense! Just to confuse a bit more, the Hitachi Power Tools site in France has switched to Hikoki - with the same multivolt tools as Metabo HPT - just all the tools labelled Hikoki! Hitachi Power tools was sold off and could no longer use Hitachi as branding. They had to separate the tool business from the electronics and other side. Hitachi worldwide is switching to Hikoki. Hitachi North America, in a genius move, decided to change name to Metabo HPT. Dumb decision. Ah well, can't do anything. Hitachi owns Metabo as a brand under its umbrella. I hope Metabo gets MultiVolt technology to incorporate into the tools. I am aware of this - what I don't get is why they are using the name Metabo HPT alongside Metabo - plain stupid... if worldwide it's Hikoki - make it the same in North America!
The other comment I made about differing battery platforms, I understand in a way that they want to appeal to existing Hitachi customers (of which I am one) - but don't muddy the waters with a Metabo battery that doesn't work on a Metabo (HPT!)
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Post by henrun on Oct 22, 2018 14:04:36 GMT -5
I think the whole Metabo HPT name/idea is a huge mistake, it will lead to brand confusion and will not help former Hitachi owners find their way into the brand - some of which were at least getting a hint at HiKOKI being the brand transfer name.
This little puppy I'd like to stroke, not offered in Sweden though.
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Post by huntsgemein on Oct 22, 2018 19:30:36 GMT -5
I've a Q or 2 for some of you battery hoarders out there. I'm in desperate need of some more batteries. One of my 10.8v batteries has died, so I'm down to one only, to share across 3 tools!. That bit's easy: they're readily available downunder.
In 18V Li-HD's I only have 3 older 6.2s. Shared by 8 tools, one of which requires 2 at a time! So I need some more. Unfortunately Metabo Oz in their ridiculous corporate rationale assumes that we Ockers only require old, out-of-date, redundant small capacity batteries only, or one or 2 generations old LIHD's in big capacities only. Specifically, 2.0, 4.0 & 5.2 M-power batteries or older 6.2 & 7.0 Li-HDs. God/dess bless Australia, where old, redundant, useless battery capacities go to die!
So I suspect I may need to indulge in some "grey" importation of more appropriate capacities. I once had a 3.1 Li-HD, which was ideal for smaller single hand-held tools, so a suite of about four or more 4.0 Li-Hds would be appropriate. I assume there's little superficial difference between the 3.1-3.5-4.0 AH increments?
What of the 6.2-7.0-8.0 AH succession? Are these superficially similar too (i.e. dimensionally & mass)? What about those enigmatic 5.5s? Are they too of similar size & weight to the bigger capacities? Or do they occupy some sort of intermediate, middle-ground betwixt & between? If so, then how do they feel on smaller drills, rattlers etc? If not, then why do you bother with them at all? I'm getting on these days, & def. not as strong as I once was. For all-day work, a big Li-HD on a drill &/or rattler is just too much cumulative weight.
I'm imagining that for the grinders, saws, floodlamp & planer the biggest batteries available would be nigh-on perfect. Do you agree, or are the latest 7.0s & 8.0s getting a bit too big &/or heavy? I've personally found that, despite my abovementioned whinges, the 2 x 18V grinder is nevertheless a well balanced & eminently usable rig with a pair of 6.2s onboard. It actually feels better (read safer) than my 240v mains 26-230 grinder! Go figure. I'm guessing that it's down to balance: lightweight EC motor & geartrain on the "business end" & a counterweighting mass of 2 batteries on the other. Mains grinders feel much more nose-heavy to me.
Anyway, how do the new/est 4.0, 5.5 & 8.0 Li-HD batteries compare & relate to each other? How do you personally use them? How many of each size do you run with?
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Post by aas on Oct 22, 2018 23:35:39 GMT -5
I can only comment on what I have - as far as size goes the 4,0's are as good as the same size/weight as the 3,1's; the 8,0's the same as the 5'5's.
As a general rule, I use the small batts on drills/impacts, etc. However, if I need some extra oomph, I'll put on a bigger batt. Case in point removing some rusted in bolts, the 400Nm impact wrench was going nowhere on a 3,1 - put on a 5,5 and it did the job.
I've also noticed this difference with the KSS40 - full depth cutting, damp wood, etc - it needs one of the bigger batts.
Personally, I think the older batts will age better from a cosmetic point of view - I prefer the look of the newer batts, but these rubbery finishes don't always stand the test of time
The 8,0's do last a long time to the point that I often don't take a spare batt and charger with me for lightness.
If you can get a mix of the newer ones, go for it.
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Post by shokunin on Oct 23, 2018 6:20:46 GMT -5
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Post by henrun on Oct 23, 2018 12:40:11 GMT -5
I can't say there was any noticeable difference between the 3,1 or 3,5 batteries. I assume the 4's will be a step up from the 3,1 - as they should. The 4Ah battery would work wonders with all drills and even the hammer drills with no weight penalty. The Multicutter and jigsaw would work well too.
For the higher drain tools I still think 5,5Ah LiHD works well though any battery released after that will probably be a little bit better with no weight penalty as it seems. I still run 5,5 and then I run the 7Ah batteries. I think the older 5,2's were clearly behind the LiHD but in short I'd say:
For compact batt's 3,5 or 4Ah. For high drain tools (including lamp/flood light for longevity) I think 5,5 or later all work fine. Now with the 8Ah batteries I feel the charging time becomes an issue unless you have the later high output chargers and even then I'd rather have two-three 5,5 or 6,2 and/or just the one 7Ah over two 8Ah batteries. I'd rather have three than two considering changing between tools on site but I guess with 2x18V they had better be paired up in tag teams of two and two.
Arrrgh, decisions decisions...
Compared to the other tool brands I have used recently (Makita and Hitachi) I'd say I do think Metabo batteries last longer per charge on similar tools.
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Post by aas on Oct 24, 2018 2:40:32 GMT -5
Just a note, my 5,5's and 3'1's lose charge a lot quicker in use than when new and they are only a couple of year sold. As a comparison, I still have some Makita 3,0's from 2008 that are going strong despite serious abuse/use.
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Post by aas on Oct 24, 2018 2:46:20 GMT -5
I don't have a battery mitre saw at the moment.
I thought you had the Makita DLS600?
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Post by henrun on Oct 25, 2018 13:26:37 GMT -5
aas: yes - I do! It's so small I forgot about it! Haha. I have the Makita cordless router, the mini mitre, pin nailer and the stapler in 18V and they are usually at the workshop. What I meant is that I don't have a "full size" mitre saw, suitable for framing etc. The Makita is great but it doesn't play well with big sticks...
My 3,1 Ah batteries seemed less capable after two years - but that's good enough for daily use. They weren't bad but they did last a little less than before. Haven't had any troubles with the 5,5 Ah batt's yet.
The Makita batteries are holding up well so far - a few years back they were really crap though! I have the 5Ah Makitas for the router and the mitre and a 4Ah for the pin nailer/stapler - they lasted forever with 2Ah batteries but it was cheaper getting the 4Ah than "new" 2Ah.
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Post by aas on Oct 25, 2018 15:18:36 GMT -5
I have the DLS600 - it is fantastic. I also have the DLS110 2x18v slider - it's a beast. These two are to replace the Metabo KS216LTX18 which is hard to keep accurate. I too have the cordless router (and planer and sander amongst others!) Mainly running on 5,0ah's - I would like at least one of the new 1820B's for the brushless drywall gun, but can't find them at the moment.
For pin nailer, I went 10,8v CXT - I have most of that range! Amazing how many tools I can get in one AUER sys 4 equivalent!
The Metabo 5,5's don't last long with the grinder, and I've noticed less run time on the BSA LED flood light too. The 8,0's on the other hand... using the MT55bl18, I started the day on 3 bars, finished on 2, with a lot of cutting - very impressed. I have the Ultra charger for quick charges.
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Post by arvid on Nov 9, 2018 11:48:35 GMT -5
I see the metabo 36v cordless miter saw is available tool only for pre order with a novermbee ship date from certain US web sites. Some list it as 8-1/2 some as 10 inch
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Post by thehandyman on Nov 10, 2018 1:23:32 GMT -5
I see the metabo 36v cordless miter saw is available tool only for pre order with a novermbee ship date from certain US web sites. Some list it as 8-1/2 some as 10 inch Metabo? Or Metabo HPT MultiVolt 36v? Part #?
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