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Post by chippiegary on Nov 18, 2017 3:50:13 GMT -5
Huntsgemain and kraft - hear, hear I totally agree .
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Post by Linc on Nov 18, 2017 4:48:35 GMT -5
Just to clarify - do the Festool saws cut on an angle right up to the splinter strip? I seem to remember my TS55 being a few mm away from it...this was a few years ago though.
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Post by oncomeme on Nov 18, 2017 5:01:34 GMT -5
In this mature age of CAD where a 3k laptop and some 5k software are all you need to design, and to a large extent test, very sophisticated engineering projects it's hard to understand how the overtly obvious, in your face, problems you bring up could have been missed. Since the prototypes alone would have made these issues clear it's a glaring red flag. Any time you are converting bits into atoms, there will be consistency issues. A perfect model does not guarantee a perfect part, and very frequently one has to make imperfect models in order to compensate for some unfortunate reality of the physical world which gets you bubbles in your injection mold 25% of the time, produces overhangs that screw up a later painting process or requires too many tool changes to mill efficiently. Anyone experiencing these problems should absolutely send their saws back because they are inexcusable, but the cost of CAD software has nothing to do with anything whatsoever. This is bad QC, not bad CAD files. |
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Post by chippiegary on Nov 18, 2017 5:33:38 GMT -5
Linc - my collegues does it’s probably two years old if that helps
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Post by chippy1970 on Nov 18, 2017 5:38:10 GMT -5
Ive had two ts55's over ten years. The ts55 & the newer R. I always thought it cut dead on the rubber at all angles. Having noticed the Mafell was a mile out I thought I better check my old Festool and out of 4 test cuts one was a tiny bit out which I guess is easy to do if say you pressed down on the saw more.
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Post by lincoln on Nov 18, 2017 6:08:44 GMT -5
Could it have something to do with the 'zero' set screw?
Going to have a play with mine tomorrow, make a few more test cuts.
I still haven't found any info stating that it should cut to the strip when tilting, only that the red 'positioner'moves as you tilt, showing you exactly where your cut will be. Now, why would they have this feature if the bevel lined up 100% with the strip? For off the rail cuts??
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Post by kraftt on Nov 18, 2017 8:20:43 GMT -5
... only that the red 'positioner'moves as you tilt, showing you exactly where your cut will be. Now, why would they have this feature if the bevel lined up 100% with the strip? For off the rail cuts?? That's how I've always seen it represented - off rail cutting. |
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Post by jozsefkozma on Nov 18, 2017 8:29:50 GMT -5
My HKC , TSC , HK , cut on same line with the
AF 65 moving about a mm away when in 45
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Post by kraftt on Nov 18, 2017 8:41:33 GMT -5
In this mature age of CAD where a 3k laptop and some 5k software are all you need to design, and to a large extent test, very sophisticated engineering projects it's hard to understand how the overtly obvious, in your face, problems you bring up could have been missed. Since the prototypes alone would have made these issues clear it's a glaring red flag. Any time you are converting bits into atoms, there will be consistency issues. A perfect model does not guarantee a perfect part, and very frequently one has to make imperfect models in order to compensate for some unfortunate reality of the physical world which gets you bubbles in your injection mold 25% of the time, produces overhangs that screw up a later painting process or requires too many tool changes to mill efficiently. Anyone experiencing these problems should absolutely send their saws back because they are inexcusable, but the cost of CAD software has nothing to do with anything whatsoever. This is bad QC, not bad CAD files. That’s exactly what we’re saying. That with so many powerful & affordable design tools available and opportunities to catch issues from physical prototyping/testing before production, and the opportunity again to check actual production samples before shipping - that the “glaring red flag” is narrowed down to a lack of competent or willing oversight. |
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Post by reflector on Nov 18, 2017 12:38:03 GMT -5
I just looked at my MT55cc and also noticed the 1-2mm shift off the rubber strip (Which wasn't the behavior in the video with the Bosch version of the MT55cc). It appears that the shift off the strip starts somewhere past 15 degrees from what I saw. Skimming the posts about shimming: Why not an external shim that rides between the track and the base? A thin aluminum plate with UHMW glides might just be sufficient for standing off MT55cc and is still adjustable by placing shimming material (Tape...) on the saw base side. You'd just bend the front and rear of the plate so it has some retention. Attach some kind of mechanism that lets it grab onto base plate by having it attach to the bent part. Just an idea.  |
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Post by mafelluser on Nov 18, 2017 16:20:10 GMT -5
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Post by kraftt on Nov 18, 2017 18:22:54 GMT -5
Why not an external shim that rides between the track and the base? Registration spline is about 2.8 ~ 3mm. It's edge is broken so say 2.8mm. The setting wheel skids are slightly recessed from base and then have a radius themselves. We're getting into 2mm territory now, shim it a mm and we're left with approx 1mm.  But maybe some only have to shim a half mm or less, you could experiment by sticking on four 'fastcap' screw hole covers strategically placed on underside of base to see if that works for you. |
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Post by chippiegary on Nov 18, 2017 18:37:56 GMT -5
That’s a really clever idea for the very occasional 45 cut that’s a quick easy fix I might try that
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Post by kraftt on Nov 18, 2017 18:59:45 GMT -5
That’s a really clever idea for the very occasional 45 cut that’s a quick easy fix I might try that the reduction of reflectors sled concept using 4 dot stickers for testing purposes doesn't address using short rails to material ratios where you need to run base off the rail to finish or start cut. I would be concerned that base would drop down off rail the height of sticker before end of cut is finished or grab edge of sticker at start of cut if saw has to be guided onto short rail. perhaps two linear lengths of self stick edge banding or just a quick build up of painter release tape would work better than 4 dot stickers when using short/maxed out rails. (?) for me personally, i'm not too comfortable losing any guide rail to base slot engagement. ----------------------------------------- more importantly though - I think it’s a little suspicious how reflector just happens to have the original factory CAD drawing of the MT55 on hand??. it’s unmistakably genuine. reflector, who are you really working for?  |
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Post by oncomeme on Nov 18, 2017 19:01:23 GMT -5
Any time you are converting bits into atoms, there will be consistency issues. A perfect model does not guarantee a perfect part, and very frequently one has to make imperfect models in order to compensate for some unfortunate reality of the physical world which gets you bubbles in your injection mold 25% of the time, produces overhangs that screw up a later painting process or requires too many tool changes to mill efficiently. Anyone experiencing these problems should absolutely send their saws back because they are inexcusable, but the cost of CAD software has nothing to do with anything whatsoever. This is bad QC, not bad CAD files. That’s exactly what we’re saying. That with so many powerful & affordable design tools available and opportunities to catch issues from physical prototyping/testing before production, and the opportunity again to check actual production samples before shipping - that the “glaring red flag” is narrowed down to a lack of competent or willing oversight. I'm sure you've seen that kind of infallible Nostrodamus style magic on TV somewhere, but the realities of industrial design are far less romantic than the bits and pieces of the happy path they generally choose to show off. If you've got automaker or government sponsorship you might have the time and budget to teach your software how to model barometric pressure and every other conceivable variable in the entire world, but that pretty much never happens in real factories as it's almost always cheaper to throw the rejects away. There's a reason why most hardware startups and Kickstarters fail miserably. If you need to make a mounting boss 1/10 of a millimeter taller because the software failed to realize the batch of the material you wound up getting from your supplier that particular week was going to shrink slightly more than usual after de-molding, you just blew a few million dollars on tooling you have to scrap and pushed your launch date out another 6 months. |
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