ntj1
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Post by ntj1 on Oct 27, 2017 12:11:37 GMT -5
After realising my 6 month old saw wasn't cutting to the chip strip when bevelled at 45 (2nd cut after strip replacement, 1st cut timing the strip), its at least 1mm out.(same on both my Bosch and mafell rails having tried both now).
So a called was made to NMA, after explaining situation, I was told 1mm was within tolerance(is this really what I should expect from mafell, I hope not just order a duo-doweller) and a festool or any other brand would be the same, luckily I still own my ts55r that the Mt55 replaced, and this is just not the case, well not with mine anyways.
After saying this to the gentleman, I was told that if I wanted this sorted I would have to send off both the saw and the rails back to mafell in Germany,(which I'm fine with) I was a bit surprised that the rails needed to go as well so asked why, and was told that apparently the saw is calibrated to the rails it comes with, (which I find hard to believe,but may well be true) so I asked how can they sell rails separately without some kind of documentation saying this is the situation, to which I got a bit of an ummm, followed by you would need to get it calibrated again, just as I would if I was using festool rails with the saw. So now I'm wondering how a saw can be calibrated to more than one rail, when you can buy the saw as I did with 2 rails, are the tolerances in the rail production that far out?
I suppose I'm just a bit annoyed you buy into this brand and the quality it stands for and I usually only hear great things about the products and company (except for maybe the customer service, perhaps this is where festool still trump's them)
Anyways I would like to know if anyone else has had this problem with the saw,is this true or am I just being told that something to get rid of me
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Post by kraftt on Oct 27, 2017 13:09:35 GMT -5
I'm sure there are tolerances when they extrude the aluminum rails but from various CAD drawing and measurements by different people around the globe and others checking their own rails with calipers against those drawings I haven't heard of or measured any great variations (?) To my thinking once you cut the s.g. you just calibrated the saw to the rail (hopefully you snugged up the saw base guides first). So unless you made adjustments after cutting the s.g. I would have to say ToolWolf is "creating reasons" in order to just follow the procedure they were told. Many people have found ToolWolf knowledgeable about mafell product. I have not found that to be the case in my personal experience when you start to delve into details with them. If you have the opportunity you should make a quick video like this to show us how 'your' saw pivots on axis ... (or maybe send video it to ToolWolf to get the point across and then they might not require rails shipped) *click (not my saw, only behaves like this around 20MM or less not going full 45º otherwise tooth can appear to move away from edge but is still on correct plane. ) btw - who's / what blade are you using for 45º and what blade did u trim s.g. with? |
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Post by aas on Oct 27, 2017 15:31:52 GMT -5
The saw is NOT calibrated to the rails it comes with - that is BS!
All rails are supplied new and unused. Extra rails can be purchased. Saws can be purchased without rails.
The saw may need adjusting though - send it back, it's under warranty.
Don't worry about the DD40 - no adjustment there, it's just spot on!
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Post by skinee on Oct 27, 2017 15:31:57 GMT -5
After realising my 6 month old saw wasn't cutting to the chip strip when bevelled at 45 (2nd cut after strip replacement, 1st cut timing the strip), its at least 1mm out.(same on both my Bosch and mafell rails having tried both now). So a called was made to NMA, after explaining situation, I was told 1mm was within tolerance(is this really what I should expect from mafell, I hope not just order a duo-doweller) and a festool or any other brand would be the same, luckily I still own my ts55r that the Mt55 replaced, and this is just not the case, well not with mine anyways. After saying this to the gentleman, I was told that if I wanted this sorted I would have to send off both the saw and the rails back to mafell in Germany,(which I'm fine with) I was a bit surprised that the rails needed to go as well so asked why, and was told that apparently the saw is calibrated to the rails it comes with, (which I find hard to believe,but may well be true) so I asked how can they sell rails separately without some kind of documentation saying this is the situation, to which I got a bit of an ummm, followed by you would need to get it calibrated again, just as I would if I was using festool rails with the saw. So now I'm wondering how a saw can be calibrated to more than one rail, when you can buy the saw as I did with 2 rails, are the tolerances in the rail production that far out? I suppose I'm just a bit annoyed you buy into this brand and the quality it stands for and I usually only hear great things about the products and company (except for maybe the customer service, perhaps this is where festool still trump's them) Anyways I would like to know if anyone else has had this problem with the saw,is this true or am I just being told that something to get rid of me. skinee: this must be at least three times this problem has been reported on this forum if my memory is correct,i can't remember if the issue was ever resolved.if you look back within the mt55 subject pages you will perhaps find them.NMA are trying to feed you a load of bullsh*t regarding the rails,there is no way there will be a 1mm difference between rails.i bought my rails from different vendors at different times over a few years and they are all bang on the same(mafell rails:one 3.1m,three 1.6m and one bosch 1.6m) no 'calibration' was necessary,just made the first cut on the strip and never looked back.you should clamp a rail,make a cut at 90 degrees,swing the saw to 45,make your cut and all should be right on the button,thats the strength they advertise and sell the saw on(not only mafell,festool,Makita etc.)if its not so then something is wrong and they should fix it. |
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ntj1
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by ntj1 on Oct 27, 2017 17:11:11 GMT -5
Just to say, I have only used mafell blades the same ones that came with the saw.
I will try to show a video of what my saw does when I tilt it over, it doesn't do as the one in clip above, as soon as it begins to tilt the tooth drops below the anti splinter strip and if I continue to tilt all the way over to 45deg there is clear daylight between the blade and the bottom edge of the strip.I would also upload a pic of how far off the cut is from the edge of the strip when at 45 but I'm assuming it should be dead on.
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Post by holmz on Oct 27, 2017 17:18:58 GMT -5
Does it cut too much or not enough when canted over?
Not enough can be remedied with more rail height.
Too much can be remedied with the teeth further from the arbor.
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ntj1
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by ntj1 on Oct 27, 2017 18:42:55 GMT -5
It doesn't cut enough, there is still material left next to the anti splinter edge. It needs to cut closer to the strip.
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Post by kraftt on Oct 27, 2017 18:53:40 GMT -5
Just to say, I have only used mafell blades the same ones that came with the saw. I will try to show a video of what my saw does when I tilt it over, it doesn't do as the one in clip above, as soon as it begins to tilt the tooth drops below the anti splinter strip and if I continue to tilt all the way over to 45deg there is clear daylight between the blade and the bottom edge of the strip.I would also upload a pic of how far off the cut is from the edge of the strip when at 45 but I'm assuming it should be dead on. That's cool. Like I said that gif clip isn't quite right (wonder if it's even an MT55?). Did a quick phone vid with my extra rail I rarely use and a fresh sharp blade (cut with same model blade):  Like holmz says try shimming the base (between rail and base) with, one first, then two strips of thick card stock paper and tell us what happens. Understand that you might end up trimming an undercut 45º into your s.g. by trying this.Those 4 bottom screws that attach the base just thread into plastic. Try turning one its easy, in fact you prob don't want to ever over tighten them. I suspect that if you sent your saw back to mafell they would simply shim between the plastic and base with thin washer or something. Never took mine off but I'm tempted. holmz, what's the permanent fix for more rail height ? |
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Post by holmz on Oct 27, 2017 19:07:51 GMT -5
Just to say, I have only used mafell blades the same ones that came with the saw. I will try to show a video of what my saw does when I tilt it over, it doesn't do as the one in clip above, as soon as it begins to tilt the tooth drops below the anti splinter strip and if I continue to tilt all the way over to 45deg there is clear daylight between the blade and the bottom edge of the strip.I would also upload a pic of how far off the cut is from the edge of the strip when at 45 but I'm assuming it should be dead on. That's cool. Like I said that gif clip isn't quite right (wonder if it's even an MT55?). Did a quick phone vid with my extra rail I rarely use and a fresh sharp blade (cut with same model blade): Like holmz says try shimming the base (between rail and base) with, one first, then two strips of thick card stock paper and tell us what happens. Understand that you might end up trimming an undercut 45º into your s.g. by trying this.Those 4 bottom screws that attach the base just thread into plastic. Try turning one its easy, in fact you prob don't want to ever over tighten them. I suspect that if you sent your saw back to mafell they would simply shim between the plastic and base with thin washer or something. Never took mine off but I'm tempted. holmz, what's the permanent fix for more rail height ? Periment fix is likely more rail thickness... One could start with a measurement of the rail thickness. (I noticed a while back that mine was a bit to the roight of the strip, and did a single chin rub and scootch'ed the rail over) if it is 1-mm away at 45 degrees, then 1-mm up will move it 1-mm left at 45-degrees. (Yes... my geometry is solid  ) |
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Post by kraftt on Oct 27, 2017 20:01:39 GMT -5
ntj1 if I didn't need saw tomorrow for doors I would pull the base off mine right now just because I'm curious. I measured 4.363/2 to outside blade plate to inside rail slot just for recalibration and had a torx in my hand when I remembered. But if you want to wait I will do it.
And you're right. At this price point if they advertise this engineering feat it should work. Though do they say it should cut on the same line as a 90º plunge or is that all the resellers videos? Maybe they just mean it rotates around the s.g. and that's it. (?) Regardless, it's worth investigating if there is shimming adjustment possible (and that seems the place to do it).
Also I can't see how relying on coarse plastic screws into ABS (or something) is registering the whole show with all the vibration, torque of plunging, etc. - we would all have had issues by now. Meaning there must be some parts that align instead of a slippy plate. The oval recessed holes are cast, so I'm thinking there is machining after that on the other side. I think it's going to be very anti climatic when I pull it off, this imagining of critical factory alignment with some calibration machine and four screws doesn't fit the theory of simplest explanations.
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Post by kraftt on Oct 27, 2017 23:31:53 GMT -5
Curiosity got the better of me (or I held to my convictions). I should say that I offer no guarantees that removing base & reassembling won't alter your current tracking or that mafell even recommends this so proceed with caution at your own risk if you attempt your own saw repairs, modifications or adjustments.
This is also not a recommendation that you do this. I am only saying that, so far, in my own case I had no trouble removing and replacing the 4 base plate mounting screws without altering tracking or current alignment, however your results may differ.
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Post by kraftt on Oct 27, 2017 23:37:09 GMT -5
These photos are for discussion purposes only. Modifying equipment could lead to serious injury or even death. (after the weekend I'll look into it further).  Do not adjust that alignment screw. It's
function is for a different purpose than the
discussion of this thread.
   btw - the plastic angle guides look somewhat deformed from fitment around mounting screws, so not perfectly flat. very thin stackable aluminum or hard plastic washers for shimming, that will deform/form somewhat under compression, seem a possible choice. too soft a plastic may just flatten out. |
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ntj1
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by ntj1 on Oct 28, 2017 4:11:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the investigation, I will get the video of my blade rotating around the s/g having looked at the newer video I would still say mine does below the s/g more than the one, but I will let you guys decide.
I will start with the shimming of the base with card before removing the base plate, to get an idea of height increase needed, then try this increase across all of my rails to see if it works for all of them.
My dad worked in a machine shop and he thinks (only his opinion) that if there is a 1mm error in height its a huge error in machining terms, and it would've been picked up at mafell, if what the guy at NMA said was true about each set being calibrated.
I will get test done asap
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Post by kraftt on Oct 28, 2017 8:12:04 GMT -5
Those laser cut steel plates at each end, that guide tilt, set everything in stone by their intended or, through incorrect manufacturing, unintended geometry. The idea of first testing by shimming between base and guide rail with thin sheets of paper only proves that base height adjustment is a solution if it works for the full range of degrees. I.e. does it now cut perfectly to the bottom edge of splinter guard at 45º but at 10º it cuts into the guard itself ?
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Post by Eoj on Oct 28, 2017 12:36:13 GMT -5
Hey ntj1
exercise your warranty with your local mafell dealer .Return the saw only ,including receipt and warranty letter .This is a known issue ,let mafell deal with the issue .A misinformed phone rep got you the wrong answers . Be prepared to wait while the saw is looked after.
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