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Post by henrun on Nov 20, 2017 17:21:40 GMT -5
John: it is hard to recommend the KSS50 and doing plunge cuts with the Flexirail. It is at a disadvantage on the Flexirail for plunge cuts and will too easily skip out of the rail notches and ruin the cut. *)
I have tried it. It seats better on the FSN rails for sure. Cutting straight is no problem though.
I also put the KSS50 in a Systainer with the Cross Cut rail on the side attached with Bungy cord. Worked great.
I made a cart out of the Metal Case and use it for transporting other gear. Way too heavy for the KSS 50 saw!
EDIT *) the plunge action on the KSS50 together with the Flexirail leads to an uncertainty in positioning and the saw can lift off the rail during the plunge and then it loses contact with one or more of the notches and then you are in trouble already...
With the KSS40 the plunge action is a little easier to manage on the Flexirail but here too the use of a FSN solid rail for plunge cuts makes the whole process a lot smoother.
The KSS are not smooth plungers - they can do it but they are nothing like the MT and other plunge track saws. The Festool HKC does have an advantage with the preset depth allowing the user to fully concentrate on the plunge and stabilize the saw. I don't know exactly how smooth the HKC is but it seems to allow for a better plunge action than the KSS saws.
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Post by chippiegary on Nov 20, 2017 17:34:21 GMT -5
Well put henrik even when using the 40 and the 300 there is a knack to using the flexi rail especially for plunging “bigger saw would definitely be unwieldly “ when I first started using it I buggered up the splinter strip on more than one occasion
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Post by neth27 on Nov 20, 2017 17:49:57 GMT -5
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Post by neth27 on Nov 20, 2017 17:51:59 GMT -5
Works out about £85 more than the standard Mafell package. 7ah batteries and the flexi rail.
John.
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Post by aas on Nov 21, 2017 1:14:59 GMT -5
The Festool HKC does have an advantage with the preset depth allowing the user to fully concentrate on the plunge and stabilize the saw. I don't know exactly how smooth the HKC is but it seems to allow for a better plunge action than the KSS saws. The HKC plunges very nicely - it's a real gem in the Festool line up - and the preset depth is a very useful feature. Shame it doesn't run on the F-rails and uses the worse battery platform around - apart from these two faults, it is one of the best saws I've ever owned. |
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Post by henrun on Nov 21, 2017 12:00:40 GMT -5
Works out about £85 more than the standard Mafell package. 7ah batteries and the flexi rail. John. I am not sure I would recommend the Flexirail over the regular FSN rails for the KSS50. The other drawback apart from the already mentioned compromised plunge action is that the Flexirail umm... ...flexes... so for semi short cuts around 500 to 800mm the Flexirail bulges and is not as nice to work with as any of the FSN rails that seats better and don't bend. Even with the saw on the Flexirail the other end will bulge and centering the Flexirail is more awkward. Flexirail isn't a BAD idea - just not as versatile for the KSS50 as for the others. I think bringing the rails are part and parcel of the KSS 50 kit - works great with them. I bought a snowboard bag and the missus took it to a tailor that customised it for me so now I sling it over one shoulder with angle rail, two to three rails and both hands free. I can also (barely) squeeze down a 2M spirit level so the bag allows me to bring more with less hassle. Batteries look nice - had they been available when I bought my gear I would probably have gotten the 7Ah - but I would look into charging times first. |
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Post by henrun on Nov 21, 2017 16:35:01 GMT -5
I found this in the online manual for the KSS50: Anyone up for trying the procedure and see if it makes plunging easier in practice with the depth preset?
"In case of repetitive plunge cuts of the same depth, the plunging depth can be preset.
Proceed as follows:
* Set the machine to the desired cutting depth.
* Open the clamping screw 17 (Fig. 2) and set the stop bar 18 (Fig. 2) downwards up to the limit stop.
* Retighten the clamping screw. After completion of the plunge work, set the stop bar into the top position."
I can't try it myself as my unit packed up and left the bitter cold for a life in the sun on the other side of the Globe.
It would be good to know if it makes the whole plunging procedure easier (not having to plunge, awkwardly monitor depth on the side scale, release one hand to lock it in and then proceed...).
EDIT:
I am not sure how this is supposed to work. For starters there is no #17 or #18 in the fig 2 or Legend (!)
Also, I am not sure if this enables free plunging down to a preset or if it is merely a fixed and locked preset which honestly would not help plunging accuracy much. Manual is a bit sketchy.
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Post by huntsgemein on Nov 21, 2017 16:57:40 GMT -5
Mafell also recommend retracting & locking up the riving knife (flipkiel) for plunge cuts. Yes, it is sprung-loaded-retractable, but it's also difficult to plunge against that spring. It presumably smooths the process out.
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Post by arvid on Nov 21, 2017 19:15:39 GMT -5
Mafell also recommend retracting & locking up the riving knife (flipkiel) for plunge cuts. Yes, it is sprung-loaded-retractable, but it's also difficult to plunge against that spring. It presumably smooths the process out. how do you retract and lock up the flipkiel? |
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Post by huntsgemein on Nov 21, 2017 23:07:17 GMT -5
Sorry: my bad! I mistook the instruction for adjusting & locking longitudinal alignment for vertical retraction. Instruction 4.7, p26. Reading on, instruction 5.6, pp27-28 describes the necessity to have a vertical "fight" with the flipkiel's retraction return spring, & depth presetting procedure.
Apologies for the bum steer. It all sounded (read) so obvious @ the time, even though it's actually an erroneous figment of my fevered imagination.
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Post by calidecks on Nov 22, 2017 21:34:17 GMT -5
Okay I've been using the kss50 all day today, plunged, ripped and cross-cut multiple pressure treated 2x material. I'm happy! In fact, the 'stalling out' was a bonus. Kept it from kicking back during a plunge cut, while off the rail.
I also realize I was just pushing to fast, before. It's my opinion that the lighter weight vs. the kss60 is an acceptable tradeoff for power.
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Post by henrun on Nov 23, 2017 16:17:40 GMT -5
Black Friday and the Metabo 57 was 30% off so w/o batteries it is simply too good to pass up, around $180. That and Metabo KHA 24 LTX hammer drill in the basket at 25% off and free shipping. Not too far off the price for the hammer drill alone at regular price. The 57 is almost worth it simply for breaking up sheet goods at the loading dock at the workshop for carrying down the stairs and in (elevator only takes a few regular sized at a time and anything over 2500mm has to go down the stairs through a narrow doorway). 3000x1200 MDF is pretty rough to carry down alone. Getting too old for that!
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Post by chippiegary on Nov 23, 2017 16:40:27 GMT -5
Seems like a good deal henrik they haven’t picked up the 57 from me yet “ think they have forgotten “ and I’ve not been refunded so I’ll look forward to your opinion on it , now I know base can be dialled in to the rail it’s got me thinking ?
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Post by henrun on Nov 23, 2017 16:44:22 GMT -5
At this pricepoint I will settle for "ok" - good to have one throw around saw that might even impress for the price. It ought to be a great bang in the bucket.  |
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Post by kraftt on Nov 23, 2017 21:51:22 GMT -5
You always need a beater. (though I suspect it’s much better than that too). Also perfect for helpers to use, and breaking down remodeling tear out for compact disposal. Some tools are always removed from the vehicle but never the beater saw.
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