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Post by mafelluser on Apr 10, 2017 19:25:19 GMT -5
For those of you who are professional tradesmen, in Britain, can you please advise me on what the regulations are, WRT 110v vs 230v?
I understand that, on building sites, 110v is (effectively) considered mandatory, for Health & Safety reasons.
However, I am contemplating going into kitchen fitting (self-employed), and this would not be on a building site alongside other tradesman, but just private houses co-working alongside my friend.
I have looked, online, at some .pdfs for a few public liability insurance providers of tradesman insurance, but none of them make any mention of voltage requirements.
On a purely personal level, if regulations did not mandate voltage under the above circumstances, I would prefer to go with 230v, since I would not need to lug around a heavy 110v site transformer.
But I need to know if 110v is compulsory even for self-employed tradesman working in private households.
There must be quite a few people on this forum who fit into the same working scenario as I am contemplating entering, above, so any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Again, this question is aimed only at tradesmen working in the UK.
Many thanks!
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Apr 11, 2017 0:53:42 GMT -5
As long as all steps are taken, to reduce the chance of electrocution. Like a rcd, tools maintained and tested. Then perfectly fine
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 9:18:45 GMT -5
When you work on site for a housing association/ company, they are responsible for you, so only 110 is allowed that means in the event of some one hitting the cable with a spade only 110 will go through them , when you are working for yourself in a domestic setting someone's kitchen etc then it's fine your public liability insurance will cover. You can ask your insurance company that you use 240v power tools if it is bothering you.
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Post by kraftt on Apr 12, 2017 11:12:16 GMT -5
And if you already own a lot of 240v equip for your shop why not go cordless/battery for on-site installations / regulatory flexibility.
If the costs are prohibitive for a cordless compound miter, track saw, jig saw you can always just fake it. I notice you guys use those transformer boxes to step down 240v to 110v. Just remove the guts and throw a brick inside, wire the 240v mains straight through to the 110v female plug. Next cut off the 240v plug ends on your cords and attach the 110V plugs to fit the fake step down x-former that’s really passing 240v. When the inspectors walk by, stand tall and salute at attention showing them you are a law abiding subject. If someone else plugs into your ‘special’ x-former box when you’re not looking and their tool smokes in silence go over and say something like “hmmm, that’s strange” plug your tool in “mine works just fine”. There, problem solved.
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Post by holmz on Apr 12, 2017 19:45:33 GMT -5
What kind of brick should I use?
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Post by mafelluser on Apr 13, 2017 13:24:23 GMT -5
What kind of brick should I use? A yellow one, I presume. It'll match the site transformer case, and Dorothy would also approve. Thanks for your insights, all!
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Post by huntsgemein on Apr 13, 2017 17:52:59 GMT -5
Wouldn't the unique plugs/connectors give the game away?
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Post by mafelluser on Apr 13, 2017 18:00:23 GMT -5
Just FTR, I personally have no intention of faking the voltage of my powertools, although I understand the reason the idea was mentioned, and I've no doubt it has been done by quite a few people, over the years.
If only site transformers weren't so flippin' bulky & heavy, 230v vs 110v wouldn't be such a hard decision when buying powertools...
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Post by huntsgemein on Apr 13, 2017 18:21:00 GMT -5
Personally, I consider the concept of halving the voltage for safety reasons as a rather spurious strategy. Apart from anything else, the currents demanded by the most powerful tools is effectively doubled, resulting in dangerously high current draw & other problematic side effects. Those pathetically weak & unreliable 110v Kapex Saws from Festo are an example.
If high currents are drawn through inadequately gauged conductors, their innate resistivity generates unwanted heat. Many are the housefires that have been the result. Given that we are now living in the 21st century, and that RCDs & ELCBs are pretty well ubiquitous in almost all domestic & commercial and in each & every industrial location, it's time for the regulatory authorities to move on also. Half voltage, double current installations might be acceptable for less well protected regions of the third world, but otherwise should be consigned to the dustbin of history.
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Post by holmz on Apr 13, 2017 18:25:09 GMT -5
The force of the OSHA, WSA, or whatever it is called is strong. This is the same way that they have done roads in the 60s now having reduced speed limits for cars that are way safer.than 50 years ago.
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Post by chippiegary on Apr 14, 2017 2:43:27 GMT -5
Hi I'm currently a self employed carpenter working in north London and do all of my work in a domestic environment , a lot of my work is kitchen fitting and fitted wardrobes ,cupboards which I both make and fit for a local company . All of my tools now are 240v and in 15 years have never been asked to use 110v although if you were to work maybe for some of the larger kitchen /bedroom companies they may insist you have 110v tools ,I'm just about to buy a new portable table saw and it never even occurred to me to buy anything but 240v hope that helps regards Gary Ps - also just rang a colleague who kitchen fits for one of the large chain company's "he sub contracts to them " he uses 240 v as mostly all is in people's finished homes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 2:55:52 GMT -5
I know no one here will do that but fake a transformer on site and some one gets hurt it's possibly jail. Yes you right them things are so heavy and such a hassle. If you know you never going to do site work then you don't need 110 but if you do invest in 240v and later decide to do site work then you will have to change your 240v equipment . Thats What you need to consider . In terms of tradesmen insurance , power tool insurance and public liability insurance then that's not a problem with 240v tools the insurance companys are more interested in gas torches /canisters , hi heat equipment. That's what they ask when you get a insurance quote they never ask what voltage your tools are, if never been asked. Also if your are going to be employing people to work on wages then your equipment must be safe and dust masks seal checked and protective equipment must be provided. hope this helps.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 2:57:13 GMT -5
I know no one here will do that but fake a transformer on site and some one gets hurt it's possibly jail. Yes you right them things are so heavy and such a hassle. If you know you never going to do site work then you don't need 110 but if you do invest in 240v and later decide to do site work then you will have to change your 240v equipment . Thats What you need to consider . In terms of tradesmen insurance , power tool insurance and public liability insurance then that's not a problem with 240v tools the insurance companys are more interested in gas torches /canisters , hi heat equipment. That's what they ask when you get a insurance quote they never ask what voltage your tools are, if never been asked. Also if your are going to be employing people to work on wages then your equipment must be safe and dust masks seal checked and protective equipment must be provided. hope this helps.
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Post by chippiegary on Apr 14, 2017 3:10:51 GMT -5
Just a thought if you are going to work as a pair why don't one of you buy 110v in kitchens won't be lots of room you will prob only have one jigsaw / rail out anyway
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Post by mafelluser on Jun 11, 2017 11:32:19 GMT -5
I just realised I neglected to post a follow-up in this thread. I ended up going with 230v, since I figured it'd be less hassle than lugging-around a 110v transformer, and (thanks to advice here and outside of cyberspace) I was reassured that, for domestic jobs, I'd mostly never encounter 110v stipulations. What has turned out to be rather ironic, however, is Mafell's May/June 2017 release of a cordless MT55 (http://mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/886/new-kss50-cordless-mt55) just 4 weeks after I purchased a 230v MT55CC. This really sucks, but I know my MT55CC will still pay for itself, so I'm trying not to get irritated by missing-out on a cordless version so extremely soon after buying mine!
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