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Post by henrun on Jun 16, 2018 1:21:27 GMT -5
    First things first. The GRIP. Near perfect on Hitachi. "OK" on Metabo. For larger hands the Metabo will be better than for me. With and without gloves the Hitachi is a slam dunk home run ball over the fence into the parking lot winner for me. I did predrilling with the Metabo (Fisch Countersunk hex bit) and then switched to driving with the Hitachi. After an hour I switched tasks. Everytime I went from the Metabo to the Hitachi - with and without gloves - my hands went oooh and aaah. It is that nice. So, is the Hitachi that much better in use? Well, it is not a slam dunk victory as they are pretty much the same in action even if the ergonomics on the Hitachi is superior to me. Metabo even has the upper hand in working features. The Hitachi is very nimble, more in line with the Makita impacts, being compact and agile. I shifted between modes for driving deck screws and setting "delicate" works well, setting two (normal) works well but with a little fast driving and easy to sink it down to deep if you don't watch out. Drill mode for self tapping works well too as it starts fast and when the decking screws drop down below the surface it slows down so no risk for sinking it too deep. But, it slows it down a little too much if there is more resistance so takes a little while longer as well. Never tried Power mode for decking screws. The Metabo has variable torque and can be dialed in more precisely to a torque setting that is pretty much bang on for decking screws. For these screws/material it was setting 4. Works better than on Hitachi. Battery indicator is four bars on the Metabo - and the superb LiHD batteries. Hitachi only has two bars on the machine. The Hitachi battery is really a true compact battery and very small for a 3 Ah battery. Light on the Hitachi can be switched on/off at your preference which is great. Belt clips are similar, perhaps a bit better on the Metabo. Hitachi comes with a strap on (...) and the clip and I do like the strap when up on a ladder. Looking at the front the bit holder and rim looks exactly the same in machining, material and size. Sure looks like they are the same - maybe sent from Hitachi to Metabo for assebly in the Metabo machine? Both are great impacts, the Metabo has some tweaks that make it easier to dial in but the Hitachi works great and has better ergonomics. I will get me another Hitachi impact for predrilling so I can get by with the one charger. I have a few thousand screws to run and a few hundred pilot holes to drill on this project alone. Cross post from the similar thread! Read more: mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/1052/which-impact-screwdriver-yall-prefer?page=4#ixzz5IZCD0UXu |
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Post by yetihunter on Jun 16, 2018 21:46:30 GMT -5
When will they release the rivet gun, already? I already bought the Veritas card scraper burnisher so that I can fix the handle.
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Post by henrun on Jun 17, 2018 7:56:49 GMT -5
Rivet gun looks awesome, nothing I am needing really - but it does seem like a highly useful tool. That's being innovative! With all the shortcomings, Metabo/Mafell is still the best 18V platform suited for my needs in terms of quality, price and battery tech. Nothing is "too expensive" as with some other brands and solo units are priced favourably so they can be bought piece meal for larger projects and should they not be up to par they can simply be discarded and sold to a hobbyist who surely will enjoy it more.  Two things I would really like to happen, one of them would suffice: A Festool Impact - on par with the Metabo is fine. I would use it a lot and it would make me use my Festool drills more often, now they are in the "extra kit" when multiple projects are running. OR A Hitachi/HiKoki quick change drill - Metabo "compatible" which isn't asking too much considering that technologies are being shared both ways. After the name change is done I would not be surprised to find some new tools emerging. There is no sense in releasing new tools now, with Hitachi brand name on the unit. I don't know what HiKoki R&D team are up to but it would seem like a good time to refresh the venerable 18V drill line up with a lightweight all rounder - based off their existing units which they could still keep too. A HiKoki quick change / Centrotec drill would be my wet (IP 56 rated) dream. I would literally dump all my other drills for that. I would change the locks on the door and take the others off my Facebook. They would all be swiped to the left.  |
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Post by yetihunter on Jun 17, 2018 22:31:54 GMT -5
If you move to North America, it will all say Metabo on it, so then you can get Metabo with tiny handles. Also, I am not kidding. :0
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Post by henrun on Jun 18, 2018 10:51:58 GMT -5
Yes, I thought I had dreamed that up but so it seems! But, the batteries will not be compatible of course...
Had another great day in the field with them He-Touch-His and it is really nice to run a few hundred screws and pilot holes in a day and not even think about the grip.
Only when I took my gloves off for a task I ran a few screws with me bare hands (I am that strong) - or rather, when I grabbed the Hitachi with no gloves I was thinking "this grip is a 9.5/10". The only grip ever that I rank higher is on that Bosch GDX mentioned earlier but that is also a much less capable machine.
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Post by thehandyman on Jun 18, 2018 10:58:26 GMT -5
Yes, I thought I had dreamed that up but so it seems! But, the batteries will not be compatible of course... Had another great day in the field with them He-Touch-His and it is really nice to run a few hundred screws and pilot holes in a day and not even think about the grip. Only when I took my gloves off for a task I ran a few screws with me bare hands (I am that strong) - or rather, when I grabbed the Hitachi with no gloves I was thinking "this grip is a 9.5/10". The only grip ever that I rank higher is on that Bosch GDX mentioned earlier but that is also a much less capable machine. The new Hitachi grip really is phenomenal. It's a 9.5/10 for me as well. I've really been enjoying the new drills as well. The drills have a fantastic optical trigger. The higher end drill has the IP56 rating and anti-kickback protection. |
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Post by yetihunter on Jun 18, 2018 14:04:11 GMT -5
It's funny, I knock the Metabo grips, but I have the Bosch impact and I think the handle is too small and it feels awkward! :0
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Post by henrun on Jun 19, 2018 1:46:42 GMT -5
It's funny, I knock the Metabo grips, but I have the Bosch impact and I think the handle is too small and it feels awkward! :0 That's ergonomics for ya! All individual when it boils down to it. The Bosch impact (with gloves) is the best grip for me. The Hitachi impact (without gloves) is just as good. Festool T18 is deceptively smooth in hand but in use not as good for me as the two above. Still, one of my go to machines together with the Festool CXS. Festool C18 is a quirky grip but somehow it works for me and I like the machine. It is not strong enough to be the sole provider though. That's why I have it at home for stuff around the apartment. Festool DRC 18/4 has a really good grip but machine is a bit clumsy and the gear spread is off for me. The Mafell A18m does better with two speeds and same or more punch. Mafell and Metabo are a bit too large for extended use for me (especially with gloves) but they "do the job". |
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Post by yetihunter on Jun 19, 2018 16:23:51 GMT -5
Speaking of (mostly) things Centrotec compatible. After putting it off for four years, I finally ordered some centrotec compatible goods from Axminster.
Three Fisch countersinks, six Fisch drill bits, and a pair of Axminster "vix bits". Good stuff. Compared to the (Leitz made?) Festool brand drill bits and fancy countersink with the depth stop.... well it's Fisch...better or just as good as.
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Post by henrun on Jun 19, 2018 17:06:08 GMT -5
Yes, I did a Fisch purchase from the Axgrindster and they have served me well. Ordered up a few last week as well. |
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Post by skinee on Jun 24, 2018 3:16:05 GMT -5
First things first. The GRIP. Near perfect on Hitachi. "OK" on Metabo. For larger hands the Metabo will be better than for me. With and without gloves the Hitachi is a slam dunk home run ball over the fence into the parking lot winner for me. I did predrilling with the Metabo (Fisch Countersunk hex bit) and then switched to driving with the Hitachi. After an hour I switched tasks. Everytime I went from the Metabo to the Hitachi - with and without gloves - my hands went oooh and aaah. It is that nice. So, is the Hitachi that much better in use? Well, it is not a slam dunk victory as they are pretty much the same in action even if the ergonomics on the Hitachi is superior to me. Metabo even has the upper hand in working features. The Hitachi is very nimble, more in line with the Makita impacts, being compact and agile. I shifted between modes for driving deck screws and setting "delicate" works well, setting two (normal) works well but with a little fast driving and easy to sink it down to deep if you don't watch out. Drill mode for self tapping works well too as it starts fast and when the decking screws drop down below the surface it slows down so no risk for sinking it too deep. But, it slows it down a little too much if there is more resistance so takes a little while longer as well. Never tried Power mode for decking screws. The Metabo has variable torque and can be dialed in more precisely to a torque setting that is pretty much bang on for decking screws. For these screws/material it was setting 4. Works better than on Hitachi. Battery indicator is four bars on the Metabo - and the superb LiHD batteries. Hitachi only has two bars on the machine. The Hitachi battery is really a true compact battery and very small for a 3 Ah battery. Light on the Hitachi can be switched on/off at your preference which is great. Belt clips are similar, perhaps a bit better on the Metabo. Hitachi comes with a strap on (...) and the clip and I do like the strap when up on a ladder. Looking at the front the bit holder and rim looks exactly the same in machining, material and size. Sure looks like they are the same - maybe sent from Hitachi to Metabo for assebly in the Metabo machine? Both are great impacts, the Metabo has some tweaks that make it easier to dial in but the Hitachi works great and has better ergonomics. I will get me another Hitachi impact for predrilling so I can get by with the one charger. I have a few thousand screws to run and a few hundred pilot holes to drill on this project alone. thanks for a great comparison of these henrun I was thinking of getting the metabo but will instead get the hitachi in a couple of weeks when I hope to have batteries on that platform,brilliant and informative review as usual,what an asset you are to this and other forums,thankyou |
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Post by henrun on Jun 24, 2018 16:46:12 GMT -5
No worries at all, just calling it like I see it. The Hitachi 18V platform is pretty good, but it has some voids and quirks. If they do a refresh as promised come October when they go HiKoki it can be interesting. I will keep a door open for sure. Hopefully they will speed up the release of new products which they have promised - but time will tell. They need to really show that the merger has been successful and if they have taken a few Metabo products and rebadged them (and vice versa) it will be interesting for sure. I have a little shortlist on the platform with some thoughts based on handling and trying some of them and after discussions with a former Hitachi rep. Hammer drill is very good, almost on par with the Metabo but no Futuro quick change chuck and a little larger and heavier. Hard to top Metabo if you need it to do regular drilling, hole sawing and some mixing as well. Great machine though that has 2.6 Joule and equal in size and weight to Makita and Milwaukee. On par for the course. The current brushless 70nm drill is quite similar to Metabo (co-op?) but with better grip. No Quick change chucks though. If they did that it would be a winner for sure. Metabo/Mafell power and speed with Hitachi grip. Imagine Metabo quick change compatibility (and some Centrotec) and I would have found MY drill - finally. Triple Hammer as mentioned before. Multicutter, nice grip and Auto mode. Sits well in hand. Vibration is "Ok" in use. Odd locking system that takes getting used to but at least keeps blades from dropping. Cheap and is being delivered with a good bundle of mixed blades. LED light on front and "quick release" lever - but with the added "no drop" lock. Cuts well. Takes Supercut blades with a cheap adapter and locks well with supercut blades. 125 Grinder, very nice grip and anti kick back as well as brushless. Very similar to Metabos (co-op?) excellent grinder. A good as the Metabo? Don't know. They are very similar in build and size. The Hitachi feels better in hand for me. 18V Nail Gun - perhaps best in class performance hampered only by being front heavy and too large for lying flat in a Systainer. It is that good - and it is that heavy... Great grip though. Could have been a benchmark machine if it wasn't so heavy. Good rafter hook. Jigsaw: A sad affair. No barrel grip and no locking switch / trigger lock - dated and quirky design with a poor base. Needs a refresh. I suspect one is coming soon and I think I know what it will look like - exactly like the new and smaller Metabo STA 100 LTX 18V. Hitachi already offers the same mold as corded - it will probably resurface as a HiKoki machine and be a bland but workable and compact jigsaw. Sabre saw - pretty good model lacking orbital action but with very good performance and has LVT anti vibration tech that seems to work well. Slim front grip and curved blades available. Rafter hook. Brushless circ saws with "Deep Cut" - if they were rail compatible they'd be a killer for sure. Looks great and very compact too. Two sizes both punching above their weight. If HiKoki would release them compatible with the FSN rails and a plunge saw Mafell could be in trouble. They also offer brushless corded circ saws that are as compact. Dry Wall gun. Light and seems to work well - but nothing like Festool in finesse. Perhaps the one grip I find is actually too small for me (!). Pin Nailer 23ga - looks similar to Makitas, perhaps a bit larger and has better specs too. Seems heavier than the Makita but looks can be deceiving. Mixed reviews but I think it is pin sensitive - so is the Makita. With the right pins both work well I think. I have the Makita. With Omer micro head pins it won't work. With Omer headless pins no problems. That's as far down the rabbit hole I've gone with Hitachi. There are plenty of super deals to be had in the next few months as they are clearing Hitachi stock come the HiKoki launch. Already there are bundles of Hitachi solo units and batteries at below list or even below "campaign" price in some warehouses. Prices are at the point of me building a small kit for chump change.
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Post by yetihunter on Jun 25, 2018 14:53:36 GMT -5
Hitachi pin nailers are already like $40 at the local big box. How low can they go?
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Post by henrun on Jun 25, 2018 15:12:46 GMT -5
Hitachi pin nailers are already like $40 at the local big box. How low can they go? Not the 18V pin nailers - right? That would be implausibly impossible.
The Pneumatic ones perhaps. That is cheap though!
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Post by yetihunter on Jun 25, 2018 15:18:09 GMT -5
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