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Post by Knight Woodworks on Feb 20, 2015 8:13:24 GMT -5
Thanks, may give it a go.
John
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Post by Red on Apr 23, 2015 0:21:14 GMT -5
I'm fairly new to the MUF, so I realize that I might be bumping a thread that's run its course. I see these threads as resources for others, however, so here goes ...
I hope that the original poster, Lincoln, is getting a lot of good use out of his chisel set, but ... I've used lots of different chisels in my day and, without any doubt in my mind, Barr Quarton is hand-forging winners out in Idaho. No, they're not the prettiest chisels on the market, but, when Barr is teamed up with Tormek, the chisels will give most folks a lifetime of dependable service -- even if that "service" is harsh duty ( i.e., traditional timber framing ).
I know one master timber framer who swears by his Japanese chisels, but they require a great deal of care. There's also less steel to work with when it comes to the Japanese chisels -- because they're generally shorter in length -- so they inherently don't last as long when used on a daily basis.
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Post by lincoln on Apr 23, 2015 2:48:43 GMT -5
Never too late, RedOak! I'm very happy with my Blue Spruce chisels, but still a bit disappointed about not getting the Barr's. Maybe I'm wrong, but it didn't seem like they were that interested in selling to me. Do you use a Tormek? I love mine.
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Post by jalvis on Apr 23, 2015 10:29:23 GMT -5
Never too late, RedOak! I'm very happy with my Blue Spruce chisels, but still a bit disappointed about not getting the Barr's. Maybe I'm wrong, but it didn't seem like they were that interested in selling to me. Do you use a Tormek? I love mine. A lot of artisan makers aren't the most friendly. Thats from my experience at least. There are hundreds of amazing makers in Idaho but only a few are even known since they seclude themselves and don't market. That being said I will be adding some Barr chisels for Timber Framing.
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Post by Red on Apr 23, 2015 12:54:33 GMT -5
Never too late, RedOak! I'm very happy with my Blue Spruce chisels, but still a bit disappointed about not getting the Barr's. Maybe I'm wrong, but it didn't seem like they were that interested in selling to me. Do you use a Tormek? I love mine. Yes, Lincoln, we own a Tormek T-7. It has lots of capabilities, as you must know, but we use ours for chisels mainly. I'm happy to read that you're enjoying your chisels. My Barrs have always felt "right" in my hands and, in the end, it's what feels good to you that counts.
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Post by Red on Apr 23, 2015 12:58:51 GMT -5
A lot of artisan makers aren't the most friendly. Thats from my experience at least. There are hundreds of amazing makers in Idaho but only a few are even known since they seclude themselves and don't market. That being said I will be adding some Barr chisels for Timber Framing. I've never dealt with Barr directly, but what did G.B. Shaw write? “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
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Post by jalvis on Apr 24, 2015 10:43:08 GMT -5
A lot of artisan makers aren't the most friendly. Thats from my experience at least. There are hundreds of amazing makers in Idaho but only a few are even known since they seclude themselves and don't market. That being said I will be adding some Barr chisels for Timber Framing. I've never dealt with Barr directly, but what did G.B. Shaw write? “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” I think that quote can be viewed to justify ones ideals(Even conflicting ideals). Its very misleading and is defined by place. "Unreasonable" isn't bad unto itself. "Progress" doesn't mean positive or good. "The World" is traditionally defined as immoral. If "progress" does imply positive/good then the "unreasonable man" is who we should aspire to. Super confusing. Wish I knew the context.
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Post by Red on Apr 24, 2015 14:17:15 GMT -5
Much like a lot of creative literature, none of us will ever know the exact context of Shaw's words. Bob Dylan, for example, used to answer direct questions about the meaning of his words with a direct question: What does it mean to you?
To me, Shaw is pointing out that many creative people, throughout history, haven't been the easiest to understand or get along with, for that matter. Steve Jobs, to cite a contemporary example, was supposed to be extremely hard to deal with. He had the vision, though ... and he pushed it out of a garage [literally] and into the machine I'm typing on right now.
Change, by definition, will always upset the status quo.
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jacko
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Post by jacko on May 1, 2015 20:18:07 GMT -5
Almost 40 years ago I bought a set of Japanese Bench Chisels from Japan Woodworker (Fred had just opened his store a few years earlier) and they were excellent quality and held an edge cutting hardwoods for a long time. They are a laminated chisel with the tool steel forge welded to a mild steel backing that allows them to harden the cutting edge steel to RcH 62-64 and keeps the edge from cracking by backing it with mild steel with a lot of ductility. I did break one of them using it inappropriately (chopping a deep mortise and leveraging out the chips too deep) and when I tried to replace it the original blacksmith had passed on with no apprentice.
Recently I purchased the Matsumura brand of "blue steel" chisels which I find even better then the original ones I purchased. The blue steel is a high carbon tool steel with alloys for grain refinement and fracture toughness. These chisels came extremely sharp out of the box and chopping mortises in white oak hold their edge very impressively.
I have also tried the Narex brand chisels from lee Valley (I bought the mortising set) that came very well balanced a good length but with a fairly rough grind which took me a long time on my water stones to flatten out. First use and the edge curled over after three or four hits into white oak. That was a 12mm chisel so I tried the others with the same results. If you read carefully they are only heat treated to RcH59 which in my estimation is too soft for mortising chisels used in hardwoods. I returned them and tried their Veritas PM-V11 steel chisels which came as sharp and flat as any chisel I have ever purchased. They hold an edge and cut through hardwood like butter. Lee Valley customer representative indicated that they were going to introduce a line of Mortising chisels in that steel (I'm still waiting).
For the record, I have owned stanley, marbles, two cherries, etc and they just don't hold up to working in hardwoods (unless your addicted to sharpening).
For sharpening I started with King brand water stones and bought a granite flat plate to keep them flat with wet/dry 100 grit sandpaper (all too often since the early water stones were very soft and dished very fast). Recently water stones from Shapton, Nubatama, and others sharpen faster are splash and go (eliminating the need for long periods of soaking) and stay flat a long time. I use chisels and hand planes a lot in my furniture building.
Jack
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Post by MrToolJunkie on May 1, 2015 23:44:56 GMT -5
Good to know on the newer ceramic style. I use oil stones - it is slower, but having water anywhere near iron scares me a little.
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Post by hemdale on Dec 5, 2015 3:55:20 GMT -5
Surprisingly, my biggest concern is always:
Shape of the handle Length of the handle Feeling and balance of the overall chisel
I think I won't use properly even the sharpest chisel if it's too heavy / too long.
At the moment, I'm drooling over Ashley Isles butt chisels and Veritas butt chisels.
Blue Spruce look stunning too but bit too expensive for my needs maybe.
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Post by holmz on Dec 5, 2015 5:30:29 GMT -5
I only have one Neeman tool, but they make chisels .
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Post by hemdale on Dec 5, 2015 13:30:06 GMT -5
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jacko
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Post by jacko on Dec 5, 2015 14:12:36 GMT -5
While the Veritas Bench chisels only go up to 1", the Veritas Butt chisels go up to 2" wide. I bought some of the Veritas PM-V11 chisels and that steel holds a sharp edge in the hardest chopping conditions. Most of my chisels are Japanese Blue Steel forged to a very high RcH level while maintaining edge toughness to prevent chipping. Let me know if your interested in these kind of chisels.
Jack
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Post by Knight Woodworks on Dec 5, 2015 15:12:33 GMT -5
I've heard the Ashley Isles can be soft. If you go that route maybe start with one and see how you like it?
John
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