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Post by kraftt on May 26, 2020 22:14:19 GMT -5
Have the original mafell/bosch F style rail clamps been retired by the new trigger bar clamps ?! The model number for the old F style was/is 'F-SZ' and the new trigger bar share that designation - also F-SZ. I went looking to buy some more and can't seem to find any of the old F style clamps either at Bosch or Mafell? I know a lot of people will say good riddance but I like them for their size and simplicity just fine. Plus they have great other uses like this: mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/47/rails?page=11 (scroll down to Eoj's post using them to clamp a pocket door trim out). |
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Post by hecon5 on May 26, 2020 22:53:28 GMT -5
Pretty sure. I tried to find "old" style too, and couldn't anywhere that would ship to me. Amazon.de had some...but won't ship to USA. :/
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Post by hecon5 on May 26, 2020 23:00:24 GMT -5
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Post by aas on May 27, 2020 0:45:05 GMT -5
Looks like they've been stopped - damn you Mafell!
Bosch 1600Z0000B FSN SZW
Mafell 205399
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Post by kraftt on May 27, 2020 0:59:41 GMT -5
Do you think it was Bosch? This kinda sucks. You would think there would be some left over stock somewhere, either people in the know snapped the rest up or maybe supply chains were disrupted by recent events making the transition a sharp cut off.(?)
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Post by aas on May 27, 2020 2:47:38 GMT -5
I've done the rounds of all my preferred (and non-preferred) suppliers - nothing!.. I have a pair so I won't cry, but I wanted a second pair.
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Post by kraftt on May 28, 2020 6:50:34 GMT -5
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Post by hecon5 on May 28, 2020 8:06:46 GMT -5
That's a lot of extra rail required for long cuts! Wondering if the Bessey can be modified; from an InternetJPG (they're always to scale) inspection, I can tell from the pixels it is the same shape and color, and the hook looks suspiciously the same dimensions. If it's wider, that'd be ideal, could just grind off the excess...
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Post by kraftt on May 28, 2020 9:47:04 GMT -5
Always preferable to have rail hanging over at start & end of cut though not much is necessary if you want to plunge down to start. The original Bessey style Mafell clamps pinch the material between the screw pad and the bent bar, the new ratcheting bar clamps are offset. It makes me think the new style would slightly bias the rail to round over the end of material to be cut, but I’m sure they’ve engineered it not to. But if Bosch made the original clamps and is saying “no more” then they might not want mafell copying their own newer ratcheting version and mafell was stuck with coming up with this thing asap (?). I think you might be asking if the little mafell Bessey style clamps could be ground from the similar ones behind it in photo? That rail insert stepped flat bar on the mafell Bessey clamp is pretty thin and bends easily so I think they use a custom short screw arm for a reason.  |
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Post by hecon5 on May 28, 2020 12:03:35 GMT -5
Does the rubber pad contact the rail on the new style clamps?
If so, I bet it's to counteract the bending moment put on the track as you tighten the clamp down. With the old style clamp, the forces are all inline through the material, whereas the new one has a slight moment induced because of the rail insert location and the lower jaw. Having trouble with posting picture, or I'd show it.
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Post by aas on May 28, 2020 14:50:56 GMT -5
I'd have to check for you to be sure, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't contact.
I had word back from Mafell - these new clamps are the replacement, no plans for anything else... I'd love some 300mm screw clamps like the long Festool ones, apparently no one has ever asked for them so it wouldn't be a money maker...
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Post by kraftt on May 28, 2020 18:52:21 GMT -5
aas - Thanks for calling and getting a definitive answer.
(wonder who's newer ratchet version is best to work with?)
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Post by aas on May 28, 2020 23:39:17 GMT -5
I have all three - Mafell screw, Mafell quick clamp, Bosch quick clamp - the Bosch has been modified to remove the 'loop' that protects the handle.
I go easy with the Bosch as the block that goes in the rail is weak - as has already been reported here. Screw clamps are great, they too are weak for using as general clamps - so I use only for the rails - probably my preferred clamps here. Mafell quick clamps are OK, not used enough to really comment - seemed like a cool idea that they are dual purpose, but in reality a pain switching from one mode to the next - but useful to have.
As an asides, for the Festool rails I have the rapid click clamps, excellent clamps; also the 300mm or 400mm screw clamps - these are surprisingly useful, my most used clamps.
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Post by kraftt on May 29, 2020 9:16:32 GMT -5
Well it’s no use beating a dead horse but I think this was a mistake on both Bosch/mafell’s part.
I get that once the plastic mold is paid off they’re saving on machining the metal on the screw version but look at what they sold them for. It would have been easy to make longer versions too. Plus the metal screw clamps were so compact, had enough range for 90% of what you needed to clamp, fit into accessory rail bag pouch leaving room for more items etc.
After slipping on rubber grips, something mafell should have done, the screw clamps were much easier to use. I know some complained that they had to fiddle with them but just hooking your thumb around bar and lightly pinching while snugging handle with other fingers (made easy with rubber grip) solved this.
Something just doesn’t make sense when looking at mafell’s newer ratcheting clamp. They look cheap, wacky, not terribly well though out. I also get the impression that these new, gangly clamps will be a pain to leave in place as you put rail aside between cuts.
If these old style screw clamps were so unpopular where are all the orphans for sale on eBay?
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Post by kraftt on Jul 6, 2020 16:55:39 GMT -5
I welded some thin plate to a couple of cheap clamps and of course they work just fine, but since I don't own either of the newer mafell or bosch plastic ratcheting clamps I have question... The old style metal f clamps snug down really well being a screw design. My ratcheting DIY's don't seem to have as much compressive holding power (plenty though). So I'm wondering if anyone who has both newer and older clamp styles could tell me if they notice a difference between compressive strength between the two? I'm trying to rule out the brand / model of clamp I used vs all small ratcheting clamps being weaker regardless.  |
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