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Post by henrun on May 23, 2018 13:24:02 GMT -5
Picked up some clamps today and had a go at the Hitachi impact. They do feel very similar in action and weight - but so does a bunch of other ones too I guess.
Once again I was very impressed with the Hitachi grip. And the Makita grip. And pretty much every other grip but the one I have. Still, it isn't bad and I can live with it but I feel this is something to easily improve upon.
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Post by thehandyman on May 23, 2018 14:05:48 GMT -5
The Hitachi grip is phenomenal! Fits the hand perfectly.
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Post by kraftt on May 23, 2018 20:32:22 GMT -5
Picked up some clamps today and had a go at the Hitachi impact. They do feel very similar in action and weight - but so does a bunch of other ones too I guess. Once again I was very impressed with the Hitachi grip. And the Makita grip. And pretty much every other grip but the one I have. Still, it isn't bad and I can live with it but I feel this is something to easily improve upon. You adapt, and sometimes end up preferring your what you have. Who knows maybe Metabo did some r&d on what kind of grip is better for your hand under use all day? |
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Post by huntsgemein on May 24, 2018 1:50:25 GMT -5
Or maybe not.
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Post by henrun on May 24, 2018 12:08:45 GMT -5
Picked up some clamps today and had a go at the Hitachi impact. They do feel very similar in action and weight - but so does a bunch of other ones too I guess. Once again I was very impressed with the Hitachi grip. And the Makita grip. And pretty much every other grip but the one I have. Still, it isn't bad and I can live with it but I feel this is something to easily improve upon. You adapt, and sometimes end up preferring your what you have. Who knows maybe Metabo did some r&d on what kind of grip is better for your hand under use all day? Yes, I am sure Metabo made a thorough commitment to developing the drill line up but for me the grip doesn't hit home. I have asked Mafell and Metabo about the grips and I have been told that due to the infrastructure/wiring internally they can't make the grip much thinner since it would compromise the structural integrity if they are dropped repeatedly. Metabo went one way and Mafell can't do much to improve the grip on their part unfortunately. Especially with gloves on the Metabo grip crosses over to becoming slightly uncomfortable and a full days work or a week with being slightly uncomfortable is never ergonomic. But hey, my Fessy C18 is in the same category too. Especially working sideways with drilling and driving is not very comfortable with any of my three most used drills. The C18 I have a love/hate relationship with. My Festool T18 sits much better in hand but my Mafell A18m is simply so much stronger in second gear and drills significantly faster so I reach for the Mafell most of the time. I started out with Makita drills which are good, I consider them "neutral" in grip. My preference is the Hitachi grip, coming from a few years of use. An old friend still has my old pair of Hitachi 14,4V's and he is 2M tall and really likes the slim grip though his huge hands would suggest the grip would be on the small side. The grip is near perfect for me - both with/without gloves and regardless of angle/position. The PERFECT grip for me is this:  I used a Bosch kit for a large renovation and I was amazed at how comfortable the impact was. With or without gloves. Pure Bliss! Unfortunately some of the other Bosch machines had some serious issues so I ditched Bosch 18V after that renovation. But, it was this Bosch model only. The successor is very good but not as good and the other Bosch drills went in a totally different direction being even more uncomfortable than Metabo. I was getting the Flexiclick but then they went and changed the grip from the first version to a seriously uncomfortable grip which is much nicer upside down than straight up...  Anyway, the Bosch ditching eventually led me into Mafell and Metabo so all in all I am where I am and quite happy though I am pining for a better grip - for my hands of course.  |
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Post by henrun on May 24, 2018 12:19:15 GMT -5
I might be overly sensitive about the grip but I can't help it. I play table tennis about two/three times a week and I customize my own grips and replace the factory made grips on my bats. The Stiga Champ grip is perfect for me, a Conical grip which has been discontinued in favor of flared grips. They did offer Straight, Conical, "Anatomic" and Flared for a long time and the Conical had a pretty strong following but a lot of buyers were confused by too many options so they simply scratched out Conical from the offering. I bought a few on sale and then made a template from one of them to make my own grips out of Zerano/Zebrawood. Funny enough the "Anatomic" is the least popular and in my meaning the worst grip of the lot. I have hardly ever seen anyone actually play with the "Anatomic" grip. It doesn't feel natural - and not very anatomic - at all. tabletennis-sportsmadison.com/handle-styles.htmlOr simply:  Asian handles are used by players that basically play table tennis with only one blade side. Their focus lies mainly on a wide variation of different wrist techniques - 1. PEN CH (Penholder Chinese) Conical design. Short style. The european handles are: - 2. AN (Anatomical or WINNER) The anatomic grip is shaped to fit perfectly in one’s palm. Recommended for larger hands it seems relatively thick and allows a firm grip - 3 and 4. FL (Concave/Flared LEGEND or MASTER) With the shape of a swallow’s tail, the flared grip prevents the blade from slipping. It lies firmly in one’s palm, yet it is relatively flexible - 5. ST (Straight or CLASSIC) The straight handle supports every blade grip with emphasis on an active use of the wrist. - 6. CO (Conical or CHAMP) Exclusive handle from STIGA very comfortable and widely recommended. The Champ grip is a handle that feels very comfortable in the hand. The grip is thinner at the top and wider at the bottom. This grip is very good for players who are in between to choose a flared or a straight grip. The choice of the handle is a very personal decision. In our compact description you can see the available handle shapes of each blade. There is no “best handle”, everyone has to choose their handle to their own taste. Straight handles normally are held more “loose”, concave and anatomic ones are held relatively “firm” in the hand. Handles which are not lacquered are naturally more sweat absorbing. |
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Post by kraftt on May 24, 2018 21:33:05 GMT -5
No I hear ya, I didn’t realize the grip was ‘that’ wide. If their excuse was to house more parts then ergonomics went out the window.
Thin is where it’s at for touch, feel, & control for me. I use a thinner putter grip than is available to buy - it just nests in the wrap of my fingers so my hands/palms can go dead, I’ve been patient watching the fat grip lose it’s luster on tour as younger player aren’t adopting it as a ‘fix’.
What would be great for us, as the electronics get smaller, is if the mfgs. offered us thermally conformable grips as an upgrade option.
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Post by zukinut on May 27, 2018 15:36:51 GMT -5
Ive only seen one handle size on the flexiclick, did they once have a narrower grip? I only use 12v stuff for cabinetry, they aren't comfortable, but theyre not heavy either so i guess im just used to it.
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Post by henrun on May 27, 2018 16:01:44 GMT -5
Ive only seen one handle size on the flexiclick, did they once have a narrower grip? I only use 12v stuff for cabinetry, they aren't comfortable, but theyre not heavy either so i guess im just used to it. The Flexiclick is actually named "FC2" and it seems in different markets they released a prior version which - by looking at the images - has a more rubberized and slightly more uniform thickness grip - which it shared with a few other Bosch drills so I can state for my own personal take on the first version is that the grip was "better" since I have held the Bosch drills with the same grip.  The FC2 grip becomes thicker towards the bottom in a unnatural way and has less overmold/rubber which makes it really unnatural to hold at an angle and not that great in normal drilling position. Comparing the three drills I had at the time the Impact was phenomenal - some might not like it as much as I do but I find it hard to think anyone would say it is poor. The second has the "mid size" grip which is pretty ordinare and quite good with uniform thickness and a rubber mold that fits most hands but for small hands with gloves on might feel a bit "thick. Third grip was the Flexiclick FC2 which I think is comfortable - when held upside down! I had a lengthy discusssion with both a sales rep and some other carpenters and even the rep admitted that the Impact grip was much nicer - as did all the others at the booth - and when I showed them the differences between the grip when placing them next to each other even the Bosch rep was perplexed over the difference in girth. They are all Bosch drills and should they have great ergonomics they should not be so different - this means only one of them is, or none of them. For people using them on a daily basis you would perhaps love one and loathe another, just like I did. Then you would fondle the other brands and wonder how they could drop the ball from Bosch. Makita is at least consistent, and so is Hitachi. Most other brands I have limited experience with but most are good to great. Metabo is neither top or bottom but all in all I find them adequate for ergonomics and great in use. First FlexiClick grip version which I think is way better - not superslim but good rubber mold and comfortable at all angles for most hands up to and including large hands: NOTE: text says FC2 but the machine is FC. AFAIK Bosch dropped the 14,4V platform and phased out these two and somehow the "new" FC2 got a new handle but this old product photo stayed online at Bosch for quite some time.  Second version which is fatter towards the bottom:  What the picture does not reveal is the difference which is quite obvious when seeing them from the back and side by side. I used to have picture of all three of them but they are out there in cyberspace somewhere and I haven't got them on my new computer. Also worth noting is that it seems Bosch has not taken the Flexiclick FC2 grip and carried it over to the new models which again look more like the previous models. I hope they release a FC3 down the line. |
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Post by henrun on Jun 4, 2018 14:39:11 GMT -5
Update:
Got some work done with the Metabo impact - and it's a winner for sure! I won't even complain (that much) about the grip. It performs as I had hoped and expected. It is a clear step up from the old model and considering the price I find it ticks all the boxes for me. It feels like a "modern" impact driver.
I didn't supersize anything but I did a bunch of 6x170mm screws (no pilot hole) and they zipped in like buttah. After that I dialed it down and did some decking screws and liked the precision and depth control. Or deaf control, it is still an impact - say what? What?
Well, honestly, it isn't that loud - but it sure cracks up any good song on the radio into a staccato for sure.
Good job Metabo and a great side kick to the A18m. Easy on the wrist too.
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Post by henrun on Jun 4, 2018 14:42:00 GMT -5
I’ve been trying to figure out the difference in the “new” Metabo impact driver and the one I got a few years ago. Are they planning to release a newer model or is that the one that’s already out? My wife wants a drill/driver set so I have her my year old Metabo drill and got the mafell one (because why not). Have to give her my impact though and want to make sure I get the newer model. Help please! If you haven't already - go for it. The new impact is a very good machine and feels handy. I am no expert on impacts so I can't mark it down as excellent since my experience with rattlers are limited. |
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Post by rizzoa13 on Jun 4, 2018 19:21:16 GMT -5
I ordered it through ohiotool they generally take longer to get you things but somehow have access to everything even the hard to find things in the us. Hope it comes soon
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Post by chippiegary on Jun 5, 2018 2:05:08 GMT -5
What’s the model no of the new impact many thanks
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Post by henrun on Jun 5, 2018 11:39:22 GMT -5
Metabo No is 602396890 for SOLO unit in cardboard box (comes with plastic insert for Systainer), no batteries/charger.
OR: 602396840 with insert and Metabo Metaloc 2 box, no batteries/charger.
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Post by henrun on Jun 5, 2018 12:03:58 GMT -5
After first day with "some" use on a fresh 3.5Ah Li-HD battery, with about sixteen 6x170mm screws, a few 8x140mm screws and a few smaller screws I went into the second day with the same 3,5Ah battery and took out an old decking 8x4m (32 m2) with around 900*) screws... ...on the same charge!!! Some of the screws had very little purchase so I had to finagle them out with the rattler but for the most part it was a very speedy affair and the A18m had to stand back in awe (though the impuls mode helped out on a handful of stubbornites). When I had four rows of screws left I was down to one bar on the battery and thought I would not make it to the end on the one charge. I did not check the battery before I started so it might have been on four or three. My screwbag holds around 1000+ screws and it was not far from full with the old screws when I was done. Very impressive! Took almost three hours (with carrying and stacking the boards neatly) and I did think the grip was a wee bit thick at times even though I didn't even think of it at first. Taking the glove off for the machine hand helped a little but I was thinking to myself, "man, I wish this had the Hitachi grip". Still, a rattler is not a machine I use that often so I am still very pleased with the purchase. I wore out one impact bit in the process so the last twenty screws were a bit iffy and also weather worn but 900 screws out on a bit feels like a bargain. Pulled a frame of a video snap:   *) calculated at 28 per m2 on 600mm c/c and 120mm decking boards = 896... + a few steps/stairs |
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