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Post by huntsgemein on Nov 7, 2017 21:31:06 GMT -5
Wildly non-Mafell post, & a bit off-topic too, so apologies in advance....
It's been over a year now since most of my power tools were stolen, & STILL no resolution from my insurers. Being without some key tools has been awful, despite my having already replaced many already.
One tool in particular is proving difficult (well impossible actually) to replace: a plain, simple common or garden DeWalt router! I'd really like a 1400w DeWalt. This has an optimum range (1/4", 1/2" & 8mm) of collet & cutter sizes, & "ideal" (for me anyway) hand-held ergonomics. It's replacing an 1100w DW621, which in Australia & the USA accepts the larger collet range from the big 2300w DW626. I lost my big 626 table router, too but managed to source one cheap second hand from the UK.
It needs to be 240v & with imperial collet/s, which really only leaves the UK as a likely source. There's 110v versions regularly appearing on flea-bay, but 240v versions are about as rare as finding a celibate catholic priest! Do any of you UK based lads know of a source that will actually export to Oz?
All the "regular" contenders, D&M, FFX, Toolstop etc don't export; Axminster don't stock 'em, & they seldom if ever come up second hand in anything other than 110v tradies' tools (which have quite possibly been all but worked to death).
I'm just about in despair of ever finding one, so any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! But please don't suggest the Festo/ol equivalent, if you don't mind. I find the whole OF1400 experience a bit too weird to handle, & the whole Festo/ol ownership experience a bit too distasteful given their dictatorial local marketing policies (fixed, outrageously extortionate pricing) & lack of local service, repair & parts availability.
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Post by kraftt on Nov 8, 2017 9:59:09 GMT -5
Unfortunately this guy passed away this year, he was fond of the 621 also. He has some other reviews there but as far as 240 goes it seems like a trade off of hassles between having a custom metric to ¼" adapter collet sleeve made and all the problems that can come with it and lugging around a step down x-former for a 110v/imperial router. Are imperial bits easier to find in your area vs metric selection? Maybe it's time to sell off the imperial bits? At the bottom of their page Elaire says that if you don't see the adapter you want they can 'accommodate'(?) another thought / longshot - any manufacturer make both 240v metric / 110v imperial for different markets using same body? If so you could by one each used and either swap motors or collet parts (?)
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Post by huntsgemein on Nov 8, 2017 18:27:00 GMT -5
Thanks Kraftt. Collets shouldn't actually be a problem. On reflection, I'm pretty sure that I have at least 1/4" & 1/2" spares, as the DW626 was stolen whilst mounted in a router table, fitted with an "Eliminator Chuck" that doesn't use collets. So I assume the actual collets are still safe inside the router's box.
As far as ditching my imperial sized bits, that's just not practical. I must have in excess of 50 imperial shanked bits, acquired gradually & individually at great expense (some cost me over a month's income) over the last 40 years. Each & every specific bit was purchased to fulfil a specific need/project, & each therefore has a sentimental story to tell. To ditch them would be somewhat akin to the wrench of having a much loved pet animal put down. Not to mention the expense involved in replacement!
The oldest bits will actually now be "meeting" their sixth router! There's actually no readily available source of metric bits at all. It appears that metric bit shanks are fairly unique to the European continent. Australia, in common with the USA & all of Eastern Asia are still (as far as router bit shanks & collets are concerned) stuck in an imperial time warp. With such a huge variety of high quality bits available locally & inexpensively from the USA, I actually wouldn't have it any other way. To "mix" shank sizes between the 2 different measures is to invite disaster: they definitely don't mix! I'd just dispose of any metric collets for safety's sake.
The voltage requirement (220-240v), however, is critical. Both rotor (armature) & field as well as the speed control electronic module are all voltage specific.
To summarise then, are there any known Europe-wide sources of 220/230/240v DW622 routers that are willing to export to Australia?
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Post by kraftt on Nov 8, 2017 20:42:04 GMT -5
oh, misunderstood.
Seems like there must be a member here that could get one out of Germany for you 621/622 then ship to you after you juice there paypal account etc.
On ebay.de they always exclude shipping to America but when you read their other exclusions I never see Australia listed and some mention to contact them with your location (?)
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Post by huntsgemein on Nov 8, 2017 23:08:41 GMT -5
Thanks cobber. They come up infrequently on flea-bay U.K. in 240v guise. Missed one in Sept as I was temporarily skint. The first I'd seen in over a year. Won't make that same mistake twice! It was a "refurbished" tool, which I assume means a repaired warranty return, factory/importer's demo model or the like. A relative bargain at a " mere" 240 Quid. So they must still be around, albeit rare. Many retailers are listing them as "discontinued", so maybe they aren't imported to the UK any more?
At a similar price to the much more powerful 2000w DW625 I guess they never were very popular there. Anyway, it's all conjecture. I suppose I just need to exercise patience, and jump on the first one that eventually becomes available! Thanks again.
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Post by kraftt on Nov 9, 2017 1:57:47 GMT -5
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Post by skinee on Nov 9, 2017 14:37:42 GMT -5
there is a used 621 on ebay uk for £75, (buy it now) also there is new 622 on amazon uk for £378,sorry I couldn't copy the links as they were secure pages(https)
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Post by huntsgemein on Nov 20, 2017 0:39:10 GMT -5
there is a used 621 on ebay uk for £75, (buy it now) also there is new 622 on amazon uk for £378,sorry I couldn't copy the links as they were secure pages(https) Belated thanks Skinee. I've been checking 'em out. Unfortunately all Euro 621s have the same small collet types (1/4" & 8mm only) as the smaller DeWalt 615/Elu MOF96E range. Only the (110v USA & 240v Aust) models use the bigger "626 series" collets that includes 1/2" sizes. The 2 types aren't interchangeable. Why? Only DeWalt knows... Likewise, the 622s on flea-bay UK are almost all predominantly 110v tradies' tools. 240v examples (my voltage) only appear about once a year or less. Just missed the last one, a reconditioned "cheapie" from Miles Tools in September.
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Post by huntsgemein on Dec 21, 2017 9:31:17 GMT -5
Just managed to score a well-used 240v DW622 from the UK. GBP 160 + 60 odd for postage is around about half what a new one (from Italy) would've cost. Yay!
Crucially, the UK model comes with the all-important imperial 1/4" & 1/2" collets, not the Euro-centric metrics. In almost all other aspects we in the Antipodes have metricated, but not router collets thankfully: I've a small fortune invested in imperial shanked bits, & consequently won't touch any other. Plus it gives me access to great value USA & top quality Aust. made bits that are exclusively imperial.
There's a few bits & bobs missing. Just basic stuff like turret screws, dust spout fittings etc that are cheaply & readily replaced with locally sourced DW621 derived equivalents.
I almost managed recently to acquire a truly outstanding dovetail jig too. One of the very best jigs ever made; an Akeda BC24. I've had a smaller British version of this jig for some time now (Trend DC400), which handles 400mm/16" max drawers, but wanted the bigger 600mm/24" version for shelving, chests etc. carcasses. I CAN cut dovetails myself, but I'm slow, maybe a little bit too impatient & crucially no longer have the 20/20 short-range vision of my youth. Trying to accurately mark out finely cut custom spaced dovetails by eye is devilishly difficult. In fact the devil is in the detail with dovetails, and even with strong task lighting & magnifying lenses it's still nigh on impossible these days. And just to further extend the theme, the alternatives in jigs that supposedly allow a modicum of automation AND unlimited width of carcass (Prazi Chestmate) are diabolically difficult to master.
Having a jig like the Trend/Akeda clones just makes sense: custom spacing, accuracy & repeatability, dust control and clear sight of the router cutter at work, not to mention safe, full support of the router's base at all times makes these twin jigs clearly superior to all others I've tried. Yes, there's the Leigh jigs, but these tend to be needlessly complicated & difficult to steady or balance the router accurately. Plus repeatability tends to be a bit hit-or-miss too. The Leigh jig fingers are free floating, allowing absolutely unlimited minute adjustability (a good thing) but also difficulty in repeat copycat setups too. The Trend & Akeda twins instead have incremental adjustability in 2.5mm (Trend) & 1/8" (Akeda) steps: so fine that it makes bugger all difference to the overall appearance, but a whole world of relief (thanks to those increments & a few strategically placed pencil marks) for spot-on accuracy with repeat work.
I've had an Akeda accessory kit (extra fingers, router bits, dust spout etc.) for a decade or more, but getting a BC24 jig has been nigh on impossible. The Canadian factory burnt down under exceedingly suspicious circumstances about 2005 or thereabouts & hasn't been rebuilt. Consequently, Akeda jigs in particular are in extremely high demand, often fetching somewhat ridiculous prices. A well used 16" jig with accessories went for just shy of AU $1000 recently on flea-bay USA. That's almost triple its original retail price! So when I managed to score my longed-for 24" jig recently for a similar price I was as happy as a pig in shit.... until the freight calculation was added on. An extra AU $1300 thank you very much! Just for bloody freight!
Yes, they're heavy. A beautifully presented, exceedingly well engineered symphony of steel pressings, accurately CNC machined alloy castings & carbon fiber moulding. In fact a veritable metallurgical masterpiece of top-shelf engineering. But at nearly two & a half grand all-up it was just a "bridge too far". It fair broke my heart to decline. I hope the cashed-up Yank who will eventually purchase it appreciates just what s/he'll be getting: probably the state of the art in manual dovetailing goodness. I doubt any other manufacturer or designer will ever again possess the unique combination of engineering smarts, manufacturing prowess & capital to make another similar or better.
Without trying to appear too jealous or "bitchy" about my loss, I somehow suspect that it takes a true maven to recognise greatness when its in their hands, even if it's just a "mere" tool. Which I also suspect is a characteristic shared by many others on this particular forum.
I also suspect that our current "golden age" of tool design & manufacture has not just reached its zenith, but may actually be slightly on the wane. What I'm beginning to see is a slight decline in engineering prowess not just in tool but also workpiece layout, design & manufacture. Dowels & loose tenons like the domino certainly have their place, & have revolutionised the speed, accuracy & profitability of their proponents, but (with all due respect to their devotees) at the expense of elegance, structural integrity & even (dare I say it) quality too.
I'm a bit of a traditionalist. Maybe a bit of a Luddite too. I'm all in favour of automation of processes. Even well designed & engineered machine cut dovetails can look beautiful and be equally as strong as the hand-cut variety. I also use a hollow chisel mortiser & dado head for speed in cutting M&T joints. Hell, even dowels have their place too (I occasionally find use for a basic dowel jig & dowel points for edge jointing planks). But in highly stressed joints (chairs for example) using these "inferior" jointing techniques it is just these particular joints that are wont to fail first. A well designed & executed fox-wedged mortice & tenon intersection between a chair's side rail & leg, by contrast, should be good for a century or more. Other more "modern" or time-saving jointing techniques that rely heavily on the integrity of modern glues - as good as they are these days - are more prone to premature failure.
Just as the materials themselves have evolved over time, so too should the jointing techniques employed. Veneered MDF & other synthetic substrates are ideally suited to the employment of Mafell's Duo Dubler or Festo's Domino. Both material & jointing techniques are calculated to increase speed, efficiency & profitability. The products (a fitted kitchen for example) has only a limited life expectancy, and is priced accordingly. However, if a client is expected to spend megabucks on bespoke items then s/he has the right to expect a commensurate level of integrity, durability & utility in the product. The higher the price, the higher the intrinsic expectations.
That's one of the reasons why I doubt I'll ever feel the need for a Festool DF or Mafell DD. Not that there's anything intrinsically wrong with either. I'm not necessarily a tool or technique snob, being equally happy with rough & ready "bush furniture" & construction techniques as I am at struggling for the sublime in fine furniture making. I'm also not that arrogant to assume that I know any better than any of the legions of devotees & fans of these tools, nor the thousands of tradies who do quality work on a daily basis with them as an essential bit of their kit. But what they (the tools, not the tradies) represent still unsettles me a bit: all that speed, accuracy and economy comes with other expenses or costs instead.
If I used my tools to make my living still I might feel differently. I don't, so maybe my own feelings are pretty irrelevant anyway, but there's precious little Zen embodied in any power tool, and none at all in a Domino, Lamello or dowel cutter.
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