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Post by jonathan on Aug 1, 2017 2:43:16 GMT -5
Hi, I'm looking to buy a thicknesser but can't seem to decide between the Makita 2012nb and Metabo dh330. What I like about the Metabo is the higher power rating and that it has a gauge on the infeed that shows how much you're taking off. What I like about the Makita is the lighter weight and lower decibel rating. Anyone here who's had to make a similar decision or that has used either machine? Thanks in advance
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Post by huntsgemein on Aug 1, 2017 7:40:52 GMT -5
I get their advantages (sort of); price, compactness, portability. But their disadvantages just seem so manifold. Having been "raised" on under & overs (planer/thicknesses, jointer/planers) I just simply couldn't cope with anything so limiting.
I may be wrong, but these "lunchbox" jobbies do little else than dimension already straight timber. They can't flatten, straighten, take out cups, twists or bends either. They can't even try properly (I.e. @ right angles) let alone bevel. For someone who cuts, mills, racks, seasons & dresses his own planks it'd be about as useful to me as using a stocking for a condom!
I know they must have their fans. Literally millions of them are sold. Why??
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Post by bicycleclip on Aug 1, 2017 8:36:13 GMT -5
I get their advantages (sort of); price, compactness, portability. But their disadvantages just seem so manifold. Having been "raised" on under & overs (planer/thicknesses, jointer/planers) I just simply couldn't cope with anything so limiting. I may be wrong, but these "lunchbox" jobbies do little else than dimension already straight timber. They can't flatten, straighten, take out cups, twists or bends either. They can't even try properly (I.e. @ right angles) let alone bevel. For someone who cuts, mills, racks, seasons & dresses his own planks it'd be about as useful to me as using a stocking for a condom! I know they must have their fans. Literally millions of them are sold. Why?? They're small. They can be taken to the job. Good Jointer/Planers, even the H260 clones, weigh a ton. The exception is the one I ended up buying, a swiss made Inca jointer/planer (model 590 in the USA I think). It's great at everything and is just about portable enough for me to put it outside my workshop when I do big lengths. There is typically an inverse relationship pf weight/results where the lighter the jointer/planer, the less accurate it becomes. I've heard a lot of people don't like the current crop of china made portable machines. Inca are no longer making JPs, but they seem to be the one portable type that bucks this. I bought mine, made in the 80s I think, on Gumtree (UK Craigslist) and love it. The alternative would have been a Wadkin or similar monolithic floorboard bender.
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Post by huntsgemein on Aug 1, 2017 11:43:42 GMT -5
I had a DeWalt DW1151 during the 80's & early 90's. For what it was, it was excellent, the 2 horse motor was the same induction motor as that in my Radial Arm Saw: unburstable & totally maintenance free. Apart from dozens of HSS & a handful of TCT knives, it only required a couple of drive belts & a few replacement drive rollers. Sold it to a boat builder. I think it's still running some 35 years later!
Like my mates Electra Beckum, it was small & light enough to fit into my (tiny)car's boot: a Ford Escort. The detachable leg stand is the key here, plus a mass of I guess some 40 kg. (i.e. a bag of cement).
It's worst feature - & the reason I replaced it - was it's pretty abysmal thicknessing capacity. A mere 160 mm (6 1/2") which really restricted it to smaller jobs like flooring, lining, scantling & the like. What was its best feature, apart from its portability, was the ability to straighten planks. Without your material being tried & in truth, one simply cannot produce anything even approaching quality work.
Thickies can only at best produce parallel faced parallelograms. Feed roller pressure won't even allow the removal of cups, and the parallel faces will only ever conform to whatever bend, twist, skew or bow in the source material.
I should perhaps add that it's replacement, a Kity 638, @ 310 x 230 mm (12 1/2 x 9 1/4") & 200 kg. (4 cwt.) is anything but portable.
So I get you. These baby tools are just about small enough to fit in your back pocket, but at what price? A useless tool is probably even more frustrating than no tool at all. I wouldn't try drilling Dynabolt anchor holes with a non-hammer drill, nor one that only runs in reverse. For me, one of those toy thickies would be about as much use. I need a tool that straightens timber, which I feel is much more important than producing parallel twists & turns.
But if you're requiring instead to merely redimension pre-dressed timber, & don't require right angled truth in the arrises or bevels then it's probably ideal.
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Post by bicycleclip on Aug 1, 2017 15:14:59 GMT -5
That's entirely my point. To get good functionality you're normally looking at heavier machines.
But If you have to go lightweight, and can live with 6.5" planer, get a second hand European made model. They are usually worth hunting for.
The early Elektra Beckum had a good rep, was bought by Metabo. Now mass produced in China.
Kity made some good machines, usually with cast iron tables hence weight.
The king of the lightweights is really the Swiss made 'Green' Inca, i.e. pre 90s. Very precise, and with a 10" jointer table, weighs about 35kg depending on stand and motor configuration. Very small footprint. The 590 comes with Tersa blades and a SUVA guard.
Inca's were later manufactured by Kity for a while, came in a blue colour, Kity got bought by Scheppach, now Kity/Scheppach get manufactured under the Scheppach brand, again in China. It's now a race to the bottom in terms of price.
The original Inca cost something crazy like $2500 back in the 80s!
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Post by huntsgemein on Aug 1, 2017 22:06:49 GMT -5
I had another friend with an Inca 10 x6. He liked it, but I always regarded the use of those Tersa disposable double sided knives as wasteful & an unnecessary long-term expense. To that end I purchased a drill powered Tormek & planer blade jig. Never had any success with it 'though. I think it was just too light for the purpose. What was required was one of those fabulous 3-phase German Elu grinders with a big cast planer blade sliding carriage. Being from the antipodes, however, these were essentially inaccessible, despite coming up infrequently @ bargain prices on flea-bay. Way too heavy to post.
The situation was alleviated with a change to TCT knives, which whilst never as "sharp" as the HSS, were essentially impervious to the dust that inevitably settles in my timber racks. I could always get a sly hone or two to but still found that TCT knives' edges lasted about 5 times as long. The small machine required laborious & not always accurate manual blade height setting, whereas the Kity's 3 blade block had a branded setting jig, which was fantastic, cutting down knife changing times & allowing repeatable accuracy.
These days, those helical or spiral mounted mini blades with quad cutting edges makes all that went before obsolete. Quadruple the time between blade exchange requirements, and instant, automatic, rock solid blade alignment. Having a helical cutter arrangement also dovetails almost perfectly with the power characteristics of induction (asynchronous) motors, which tends to bog down in heavy going. Unlike universal motors, which just ramp up the current draw dramatically & tend to power on through. Instead of the stepped, hard attack of straight cutters, spiral solid & helical mini blades provide a much smoother, even & much quieter cut that is just a bit "kinder" to the induction motor, just as an otherwise similarly powered 3 phase asynchronous motor is much more effective at performing hard work than a single phase equivalent. That "triple power stroke" seems to even out progress so much better, just as helically mounted cutters tend to even out the load.
Unfortunately, most helical machines these days tend to originate in East Asia, although this appears to be much less of a "compromise" than it formerly was. Unless you're talking about grotesquely expensive Felder type commercial or even more costly industrial machinery. Nevertheless, I recommend you pay the extra for helical cutters irrespective of what machine you purchase. Another suggestion: a well maintained with low hours of usage second hand machine fitted with an aftermarket helical block could get you the best of both worlds. Commercial quality & low expense.
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Post by bicycleclip on Aug 2, 2017 3:15:21 GMT -5
Helical, now you're talking. Since we're in the business of suggesting fantasy upgrades to a lunchbox planer.
I briefly thought about upgrading/replacing the cutter on my Inca to a helical, but the cost/benefit ratio seemed skewed more towards cost.
If I had unlimited budget then I'd go for it, but I'd probably have a standalone jointer at that point, I'd have a bigger workshop and wouldn't need to bother with a combination machine.
Saying that, changeover time between functions is definitely worth considering. The Inca is a few seconds. I haven't experienced those machines where the tables fold back like wings.
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Post by huntsgemein on Aug 2, 2017 3:24:58 GMT -5
One of the DeWalt lunchbox jobbies has an (aftermarket) helical head available.
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Post by GhostFist on Aug 9, 2017 21:27:31 GMT -5
Of the two machines in the original post, I don't have any experience. I'd go for high power. I agree with preferring a jointer/planer combo. Was looking at Hammer or Felder
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