|
Post by Red on Jan 23, 2016 20:05:54 GMT -5
Wow...I was really hoping that the "Menards Design" was consistent with the basic design used by Bosch for the FSN KZW design enhancements.
Here are the comparisons I got for the clamp bar itself...
Bar Height: 16mm (Bosch); 17.92mm (Menards)
Bar Thickness: 6.0mm (Bosch); X.Xmm (Menards)
Clamp Bar (End) to Mount Hole (Center): 12mm (Bosch); 17.92mm (Menards)
I.D., Mount Hole, Bar Bracket: 6.1mm (Bosch); 6.45mm (Menards)
It seems pretty clear to me that the Menards clamp bar itself is more substantial than the Bosch clamp bar...so using the Bosch Bar Bracket with the Menards Clamp Bar seems fairly impractical.
I wrote this out to clarify an exact comparison of all the important dimensions and, more to the point, what may (or may not) be possible. In short, let's hope for good things when the Texton Clamp is taken apart. Are we on the same page, Jack?
|
|
|
Post by toomanytoys on Jan 23, 2016 20:33:18 GMT -5
I was just about to do some more editing. I earlier added the bar width numbers, which are within tolerable numbers. The ends I'm not too worried about as that dimension is easily ground down. The 2mm (0.080") bar height is the big difference andI can't say how that could effect clamp loading as the layout of the foot to clamp surface already is offset. Still thinking about this. I may grab some aluminum to play in my drill press, I wish I had a Bridgeport! In metal machining mode my tolerances are +/- 0.005" (I still don't think in metric), so we are little wide here.
It's hard to say what is going on here. I can't see Bosch tooling up the injection moulds themselves so they could be so close in profile, but I've seen in my history moulds being moved around to different locations and other components like the bars being different due to local material availability. These two clamps are close to each other in bar sizing.
Where I get apprehensive is having a quantity of parts machined to what could be varying dimensions. Dressing parts with a round file gets old quick.
And then we (I) may be complaining the grass is 1/4" higher at the one end of the football field.
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 23, 2016 21:19:36 GMT -5
I was just about to do some more editing. I earlier added the bar width numbers, which are within tolerable numbers. The ends I'm not too worried about as that dimension is easily ground down. The 2mm (0.080") bar height is the big difference andI can't say how that could effect clamp loading as the layout of the foot to clamp surface already is offset. Still thinking about this. I may grab some aluminum to play in my drill press, I wish I had a Bridgeport! In metal machining mode my tolerances are +/- 0.005" (I still don't think in metric), so we are little wide here. It's hard to say what is going on here. I can't see Bosch tooling up the injection moulds themselves so they could be so close in profile, but I've seen in my history moulds being moved around to different locations and other components like the bars being different due to local material availability. These two clamps are close to each other in bar sizing. Where I get apprehensive is having a quantity of parts machined to what could be varying dimensions. Dressing parts with a round file gets old quick. And then we (I) may be complaining the grass is 1/4" higher at the one end of the football field. One thing that really grabbed me here was you mentioning the Bridgeport, Jack. I was at an estate auction back in '09 and my older friend, a bona fide yankee all-rounder, pointed out a Bridgeport hidden in one of the departed's work spaces. Upon reflection, this machine was one of the finest examples of a single-phase, variable-speed, milling machine -- complete with a fluid system -- that I have ever seen. I didn't have the friggin' brains to bid on the machine, but I believe it went for around $1,200.00. When I think about it...I feel like an idiot, quite frankly.
As for the clamp bar, I'm open to any and all ideas. Perhaps I've written the Menards Design off too quickly? Regardless, and God willin,' I will have a Bridgeport some day.
|
|
|
Post by toomanytoys on Jan 23, 2016 21:54:31 GMT -5
Same boat. I've taught how to use a Bridgeport and used them in R&D when I worked in the composites field. 15 years ago when they were closing down our dyno facility in Mahwah, NJ there were a couple going for the same price, I just didn't and still don't have the room. They are a nice tool to have and with the lost of industry in the country as well as the move to CNC are not that hard to find.
|
|
|
Post by ohan on Jan 24, 2016 2:49:42 GMT -5
Where are the Bosch clamps made?
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 24, 2016 5:58:17 GMT -5
There are no markings on the Bosch clamps themselves and, quite honestly, I didn't pay any attention to the packaging when we received them. In other words, I don't know where they were made.
|
|
|
Post by toomanytoys on Jan 24, 2016 7:26:25 GMT -5
Do they the same patent number on them?
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 24, 2016 12:52:47 GMT -5
Do they the same patent number on them? Good idea, Jack, but no numbers on the outside. I've resisted taking them apart, so who knows what might be on the inside?
|
|
|
Post by toomanytoys on Jan 24, 2016 13:13:22 GMT -5
It would be on the outside as in my pictures. But if you go to the patent link it is expired. It could be the injection moulds were sold at auction and passed around, or parts are being sold private label.
if anyone else has any of these clamps, Bosch, Tool Shop, or whatever, if you have the ability could you measure the height of the bar so we can see the variations?
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 24, 2016 13:21:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 24, 2016 16:32:41 GMT -5
Now that Jack has added a Bar Thickness measurement to his series of photos, I can make the final [previously] unknown comparison...Here are the comparisons I got for the clamp bar itself... Bar Height: 16mm (Bosch); 17.92mm (Menards) Bar Thickness: 6.0mm (Bosch); X.Xmm 5.882mm (Menards) Clamp Bar (End) to Mount Hole (Center): 12mm (Bosch); 17.92mm (Menards) I.D., Mount Hole, Bar Bracket: 6.1mm (Bosch); 6.45mm (Menards)Read more: mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/661/bosch-fsn-guide-rail-clamps?page=3#ixzz3yCOLPGkp
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 24, 2016 21:00:40 GMT -5
Considering the actual connection between the slot in the bottom of the guide rail and the clip on the end of the clamp and, specifically, how the clip slides into said slot, what's to stop us from making due with the height of Menards clamp bar and keeping everything else loose?
In other words, would the "slop" presented by a the larger dimensions -- required by the Menards clamp bar for the most part -- really be a deal breaker? Put another way, couldn't the bracket on the end of the clamp bar swivel a bit and still make the connection entirely possible?
The thickness of the two clamp bars is virtually identical, so sliding the "shorter" (16mm high) Bosch clamp bar into the "longer" (17.92mm) hole required by the Menard clamp bar should allow the clamp bar bracket to "rock" in a manner that makes lining up the clip and the groove in the bottom of the guide rail fairly easy.
So...if Menards clamp owners were to cut 6mm off of the end of their clamp bars and Bosch clamp owners were to enlarge the mounting holes in their clamp bars to an I.D. of 6.45mm, an appropriately dimensioned bar bracket would be "universal" (relative to both the Bosch and the Menards clamps). Any productive thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by tymbian on Feb 3, 2016 16:40:24 GMT -5
Interesting thread.
What are the dimensions of the t-slot and of the male counterpart on the clamp?
|
|
|
Post by Red on Feb 5, 2016 8:47:57 GMT -5
"Community" ... really? Yeah, I really thought we had something going here...but I've kept our clamps disassembled for more than long enough -- hoping it would help our "collaborative" efforts -- but, I actually use our clamps to make a living, so Plan B it is.
It's a wonderful day in the neighborhood, RedInteresting thread. What are the dimensions of the t-slot and of the male counterpart on the clamp? Hello Tymbian,
This thread has obviously lost its main players, but the info herein may still help others -- and that's why I spend time on the MUF. At the end of this message, you'll see a link to a drawing I created in an effort to help all of us accomplish the goal. Feel free to use it as you will, and please bear in mind that there's additional measurement data following the drawing -- in subsequent posts.
Hope you can do something good with all of this discussion and data, Red Link to non-scale schematic drawing
|
|
|
Post by tymbian on Feb 5, 2016 15:00:51 GMT -5
Thanks Red. Sorry about the whole 'community' thing....
I'm after t-bolts for the Bosch rail for a. Rail-dogs b. Fixing a rail to a hinge-plate to consequently fix to the side of a work-bench/mft style top..
|
|