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Post by Red on Jan 18, 2016 16:21:11 GMT -5
I've gotten several questions about the best way to clamp down the fine guide rail systems that make many of our Mafell power tools shine. Well, I've been so impressed with the Bosch FSN KZW Guide Rail Clamp design that I thought I'd start a thread featuring it as one of the MUF's "Other Great Tools." As you can see -- in the top photo -- the Bosch trigger guard, the black palm rest, the red quick-release button and the trigger itself are oriented for downward use to facilitate using the clamp to quickly and efficiently grip the workpiece from underneath. By contrast, the Irwin Quick-Grip XP clamp shown -- in the second photo -- has the palm rest and the other controls oriented in the standard "handgun" position.
I've read a few suggestions that a clever machinist might be able to modify and/or convert the Irwin clamp design to perform the same function, and I'm sure that it's true...but a thorough inspection of both designs certainly suggests that -- given the time and the effort required to effect said conversion -- the Bosch FSN KZW is pretty attractive for keeping our wonderful precision guide rails in place.
Any other productive thoughts would be greatly appreciated...
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Post by sundog on Jan 18, 2016 18:05:44 GMT -5
This clamp is available in the US at Menards stores for about $10. It appears to be identical to the Bosch clamp, right down to the molding of the housing, with the obvious exception of the metal end that fits in the rail slot. It should be relatively easy to fabricate that metal piece and attach it to the clamp end. The movement of the clamp is the same as the Bosch as well, with the trigger reversed and closing toward the direction of trigger pull. I am seeing the Bosch clamps available online in the UK for 40 quid (about $60US) before shipping, so working up a pair of these to fit the rail would be a comparative bargain. I should get my rails in a week or so, then I can work up a prototype end and see how it functions.
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Post by toomanytoys on Jan 18, 2016 19:18:48 GMT -5
$6.98 plus shipping at Menards retail. It must cost Bosch a lot of money to make those ends. Attachments:
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Post by Red on Jan 18, 2016 20:49:19 GMT -5
This clamp is available in the US at Menards stores for about $10. It appears to be identical to the Bosch clamp, right down to the molding of the housing, with the obvious exception of the metal end that fits in the rail slot. It should be relatively easy to fabricate that metal piece and attach it to the clamp end. The movement of the clamp is the same as the Bosch as well, with the trigger reversed and closing toward the direction of trigger pull. I am seeing the Bosch clamps available online in the UK for 40 quid (about $60US) before shipping, so working up a pair of these to fit the rail would be a comparative bargain. I should get my rails in a week or so, then I can work up a prototype end and see how it functions. Nice!! I was basing my thoughts on the Irwin XP design we've owned -- and put to good use -- for many years now. I didn't realize that the "Manard" variation even existed. If you can duplicate the fantastic Bosch design -- and save a bundle in the process -- God Bless the Thinkers.
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Post by toomanytoys on Jan 18, 2016 22:43:06 GMT -5
For you guys with the Bosch or Tool Shop clamps, if you have a pair of calipers could you get the following dimensions? I don't have access to a machine shop as I used to, but there is a site from North Jersey that will price out anything you want them to machine.
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Post by Red on Jan 18, 2016 23:14:23 GMT -5
For you guys with the Bosch or Tool Shop clamps, if you have a pair of calipers could you get the following dimensions? I don't have access to a machine shop as I used to, but there is a site from North Jersey that will price out anything you want them to machine. It's snowing here now, Jack, or I would make the measurements myself. Although I own (and love) a pair of the Bosch FSN KZWs, I'll do whatever I can to facilitate an American version being fabricated.
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Post by thedude306 on Jan 18, 2016 23:23:00 GMT -5
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Post by toomanytoys on Jan 19, 2016 1:07:51 GMT -5
Not sure but tomorrow I'll check the rail dimensions. This is about the clamps from Amazon:
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Post by sundog on Jan 19, 2016 6:17:35 GMT -5
I don't have a set of calipers, but now I have an excuse to get one!
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Post by ohan on Jan 19, 2016 7:07:15 GMT -5
Nice find on the Menards. As far as the handle goes, I'm not convinced it makes much of a difference. If you turn the Irwin around and put the "trigger" in your palm and squeeze the palm grip like a trigger, it still works. In fact I often use them this way, inverted. So it's not really a big deal to me. The harder part (and I don't think it'd be that hard) would be to make the little tongue, and it's there that I think it could be redesigned to be either more durable or more replaceable. Personally I don't think it should be made out of metal that's harder than the rail.
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Post by toomanytoys on Jan 19, 2016 8:02:09 GMT -5
Agreed. From Red's failure they appear to be a steel, thin top plate held in place to a zinc or aluminum casting by two small diameter screws. My vision was a foot milled out of steel or aluminum that slipped over the bar.
The block material is cheap, it's the setup and milling that's the expense. The top slots to fit into track are easy but ideally should have filleted corners for strength if aluminum, which will require a custom mill bit. Going over the bar the foot could be end milled out to radius match the bar and have a close fit as the expensive option. A cheaper alternative would be to plow out a groove to fit over the bar and just use the end fitment and through screw to keep the foot from rocking under clamping pressure. If this option is done you could machine out bar stock 24-36" in length and cut off the needed segments which would be less expensive. But two bar holes could utilize two fasteners for that stability.
Actually the failure mode of the Bosch foot would not be that bad of an issue if they didn't use locktite to retain the screws making it problematic in their removal.
Another way would be basically use T shaped stock machined to fit the groove and have a center section removed out of the center leg to fit the bar. Then two side plates are through fastened with three screws, one in the center to attach to the rail and two on the sides to fasten the T.
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Post by Knight Woodworks on Jan 19, 2016 8:52:44 GMT -5
Jack,
If you decide to have these milled I'd be interested in a few.
John
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Post by Red on Jan 19, 2016 9:12:49 GMT -5
I didn't really have the time to draw it to scale, but here are the measurements I got with our Mitutoyo. There may be a slight error in the inside diameter (I.D.) measurement of the hole in the Clamp Bar and the Bar Bracket. This is due to the fact that our clamps are still in the repair process, and removing the bar brackets was never part of our repair strategy.
By the way, the profile of the Clamp Bar End and the Bar Bracket End are not quite as oval as depicted herein. This is due to the software used to create this particular drawing and was, therefore, unavoidable.
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kdjb
New Member
Posts: 23
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Post by kdjb on Jan 19, 2016 9:20:35 GMT -5
The ability to get the little connector as a spare part would open so many doors but im guessing thats highly unlikely Like the look of Axminsters quick clamps if the don't already fit i doubt it would take much machining to make them fit EDIT: The part the slides into the rail seems considerably thinner so pretty sure would need machining EG:
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Post by holmz on Jan 19, 2016 12:15:47 GMT -5
Jack, If you decide to have these milled I'd be interested in a few. John Me too
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