|
Post by holmz on Jan 14, 2016 16:38:31 GMT -5
Is the resorcinol the Cosby stuff?
|
|
|
Post by holmz on Jan 14, 2016 16:40:51 GMT -5
You could probably do like a vacuum bag and use a heater to blow warm air around it in a circle. Or a pot belly stove in a large shed.
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 15, 2016 15:18:53 GMT -5
You know, Mr. Holmz, the old schoolers who taught me traditional TF warned me that steel and wood joinery is bad juju...and, to a great extent, I agree with them.
When it comes to the Winter Project I'm asking about herein, however, I have to get my mind off of wood. If I were to design a steel roof frame structure, for example, the entire structure would be minus any wood...and, yes, Butthead would say that I used the word "wood" and giggle about it.
It seems really weird to even think about, but I guess there are structures out there that have very little wood...heh, heh...he said "little wood"..heh, heh...
![](http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s384/HandLogger/Butthead%20the%20Keyboard%20Warrior%20.jpg)
|
|
|
Post by holmz on Jan 15, 2016 18:50:15 GMT -5
If it was steel it would be a truss r a space frame. A monocoque (chuckle 'monocock') is usually the best strength to weight, which the plywood I part emulates. You want the parts in tension or compression and not sheer or bending.
|
|
|
Post by sundog on Jan 16, 2016 8:12:53 GMT -5
I can't help you with the framing or structural questions, but I can't help but wonder, what do you do with the shipping containers? Tell me about the purpose of the whole structure. Looks interesting!
|
|
|
Post by rizzoa13 on Jan 16, 2016 11:01:16 GMT -5
I mean that 24' span your showing is really just acting as a collar tie to keep the top of the roof from being able drop down under load, correct?
I think structural steel framing like you've shown in heavy enough gauge will work great. Start thinking of it like a Hammerbeam bent and try to design the truss to bear the load down to the vertical load bearing members on the inner edges of the Sea Box.
I can see some metal "braces" used on a 45 to carry that load over. Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by holmz on Jan 16, 2016 11:32:30 GMT -5
Well Antonio Gaudi built his building models upside down and the strings effectively were like Finite Element Analysis (FEA) before computers.
That horizontal will be in tension and the roof angles will be in compression. Ot is only 12' on each 1/2.
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 16, 2016 14:05:12 GMT -5
I can't help you with the framing or structural questions, but I can't help but wonder, what do you do with the shipping containers? Tell me about the purpose of the whole structure. Looks interesting! We own a parcel of managed forest land in the Berkshires region of western New England, Sun Dog. We purchased the land from an [absentee] lumber company, so, unfortunately (for us), many of the adjacent land owners and townies learned the following there: target shooting, hunting, hiking, motorcycle/atv riding, snowmobile operations, cordwood collection, snow-shoeing, etc, etc...and, when I write "learned," I mean that literally. These folks have been using the land, free of charge, since they were children.
So what's the point? The point is that these generations of locals got so "used" to enjoying the land as a community park that they, at some point, started to imagine that they actually owned "the park." So, after many months of being on the open market, along comes an out-of-stater -- and a southern redneck, no less [me] -- who makes an offer to purchase the entire package. This offer, however, was contingent on verifying the zoning (possible uses) of the land, which is when things really got interesting...but I digress.
After [literally] years of legal wrangling -- which included open town meetings, town voting and two court trials -- a judge in the big city declared that we had every right to build there, which, ironically enough, is what we had been saying for years...so, considering the amount of money wasted on legal fees, this vindication was bittersweet (to say the least).
But...even after years of the word spreading around town, numerous sign postings and more than one confrontation, some of the locals still believe that the land is their park...and, considering the fact that an adjacent land owner lost a 50-ton excavator to an arsonist, we take the threat of trespass very, very seriously...which brings me back to the original post in this thread.
Last weekend, our LTC security manager, Mrs. Red, videotaped yet another trespasser and, long story long, declared that our security measures must be upgraded as soon as possible, which is what lead me to the idea of employing locking cargo containers to secure our highly-pilferable items, like our timber framing tools, for instance...and, considering that we'll need two of said containers to do the job properly, I came up with the idea depicted in the drawing (Post #1), which, as the photo in the same post proves, is not exactly an original idea (the photo is not from our land). So the 40' high-cube (8'-9" ceiling height) cargo containers are for locking up our tools and the roof structure is for protecting our heavy equipment from the elements, which also comes with the ancillary benefit of providing cover to work under during inclement weather...end of rant... So what did the man say? Oh, yeah...All's well that ends well.
|
|
|
Post by toomanytoys on Jan 16, 2016 18:39:11 GMT -5
Sounds like what I go through every year on the farm, including this year of having 4 Christmas trees stolen and twice chasing out the same women who parked in front of the NoTrespassing sign, then telling me she's not trespassing as I approach her in the back fields. I won't even talk about the hunters and the no hunting signs. A few decades ago a hunter killed out German Shepard in the back. I think I need to throw a few fake human skeletons around.
On edit, I also keep finding golf balls all over the fields. I never played golf.
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 17, 2016 12:34:54 GMT -5
Sounds like what I go through every year on the farm, including this year of having 4 Christmas trees stolen and twice chasing out the same women who parked in front of the NoTrespassing sign, then telling me she's not trespassing as I approach her in the back fields. I won't even talk about the hunters and the no hunting signs. A few decades ago a hunter killed out German Shepard in the back. I think I need to throw a few fake human skeletons around. On edit, I also keep finding golf balls all over the fields. I never played golf. re: The woman in the back fields and in front of the No Trespassing sign.
We once had a guy sort of "show up" in the middle of the forest. As the Mrs. and I escorted the guy down the mountain, he gave us a Leninist speech about how no one should own so much land. After the third or fourth version of the same theme, we both couldn't wait to hit the property line...but, once we did, I asked this nut to let us know when the folks at the grocery store start giving groceries away or, better yet, to please let us know when the tax assessor waives our property taxes. I promised him that, once either condition was met, I'd let him come and go as he pleases.
|
|
|
Post by holmz on Jan 17, 2016 15:16:31 GMT -5
He could move to Lennongrad with Snowden and the others.
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 17, 2016 22:33:14 GMT -5
I mean that 24' span your showing is really just acting as a collar tie to keep the top of the roof from being able drop down under load, correct? I think structural steel framing like you've shown in heavy enough gauge will work great. Start thinking of it like a Hammerbeam bent and try to design the truss to bear the load down to the vertical load bearing members on the inner edges of the Sea Box. I can see some metal "braces" used on a 45 to carry that load over. Thoughts? Your parallel to a hammer beam truss design is very interesting, Mister R. Unfortunately, a lot of wide hammer beam designs actually require buttressing to properly support the roof load. In other words, it's considered to be one of the weakest TF truss designs and it is often overloaded (due to a lack of buttressing)...
...In this case, however, the buttressing is built in -- via the remaining width of the cargo boxes -- so your idea is now showing some real promise.
Thanks for your thoughts
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 19, 2016 18:06:45 GMT -5
If it was steel it would be a truss r a space frame. A monocoque (chuckle 'monocock') is usually the best strength to weight, which the plywood I part emulates. You want the parts in tension or compression and not sheer or bending. How about a drawing or a sample photo, my friend?
|
|
|
Post by holmz on Jan 19, 2016 18:30:53 GMT -5
@red I sent you a doodling.
|
|
|
Post by Red on Jan 20, 2016 6:33:04 GMT -5
@red I sent you a doodling. I took a look at your drawing, Mr. Holmz, and it seems to be predicated on some pretty long 4 x 6 timbers. Assuming that I'm understanding your wooden I-beam concept, the collar tie (aka, lower chord) would still have to be at least 25' long to cover the open span in the Winter Project drawing. Am I right?
How about running the elements of your trusses by me again? Are you thinking about a truss frame -- top chords (rafters) and bottom chords (collar ties) -- that are made of out 4 x 6 elements that are milled on one of their 4" ends for accepting a solid plywood web? Like this:
|
|