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Post by charley1968 on Dec 12, 2015 5:21:49 GMT -5
Hi folx What do you think about abovementioned companies? Are they producing the non-plus-ultra in lay-out and marking equipment or are they more catering to the collectors market? While i like the photos of some of the WP squares etc. I do not understand their business-scheme. I'd think if a craftsman needs a marking tool for a certain job, he'd hardly wait half a year for delivery. What do you think?
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Post by holmz on Dec 12, 2015 5:58:22 GMT -5
I think it is BS
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Post by charley1968 on Dec 12, 2015 6:40:13 GMT -5
...as in Best Squares or bovine feces?
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Post by GhostFist on Dec 12, 2015 6:40:30 GMT -5
This stuff is more for collectors imo. Bridge city have some interesting ideas.in fact I may purchase a jmp some day. But the finish is so fine on some of the stuff I'd be afraid to fart in the same room.
Woodpeckers gear I was never interested in. I know some people like it
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Post by holmz on Dec 12, 2015 7:35:47 GMT -5
Well we lean forwards in our chairs thinking if i do not get this, then the next bloke will. and they are special, so if I do not click now I am a loser, and the next bloke is better.
If they were worth having they should make them all the time.
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Post by Red on Dec 12, 2015 7:53:17 GMT -5
Well...this thread is kind of tilting downhill, but, guess what, I'm here to [try to] level it out.
If you're looking for metal fabrication tools, brands like Starrett, Mitutoyo, PEC and Brown & Sharpe are the order of the day. We do own our share of these tools, but I'm going to comment on wood working tools, exclusively.
We own numerous Woodpecker Tool (WT) products and, for the most part, they're top notch: for wood working purposes. We have, in fact, ordered a few of their one-time-tools and they, too, have served us very well. When used in conjunction with some of Incra's fine physical metrology tools, the WT products really earn their keep. I personally use the WT 24-inch Precision Woodworking T-Square on a regular basis, for example, and I find it to be a must have. Not only is our square right on the money at 90-degrees, but the machined beveled edges are a joy to use when you need to make a quick mark. It's also well-balanced and the fit and finish are way better than most of the Empire and Johnson stuff I've used (in the past).
I'm not sure about their business plan, either, but some of the "little" innovations made by WT are enough to get our business. We have quite a collection of WT's woodworking rules, and the rule attachments make them more than just common "rulers." The removable hook stops and rule stops, for instance, quickly turn our beveled-edge rules into repeatable edge references that can lay flat on their own...and, if you think about it, a set square or a combo square don't often give you this feature. The WT stuff "ain't" exactly cheap, but neither are any of the precision brands -- especially those made in the US. As my Irish relatives would say, "does" are my "tots."
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Post by GhostFist on Dec 12, 2015 8:53:08 GMT -5
Keep in mind I was very reluctant to by a Starrett combo square set. Now that I have one it's proved it's value, as with my Starrett compass and Trammell point set. I find a large Swanson speed square to be accurate enough for rougher tasks and it works great as a guide for my p1cc, but I'm not doing large sized precision joinery as in complicated timber framing. As far as paying a premium for a smaller manufacturer's specialty products. I'm all for supporting that. At the same time I ask myself, "what laser engraved titanium instruments did they use to build the Parthenon? " They didn't
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Post by erik on Dec 12, 2015 9:16:38 GMT -5
As a company, I could imagine trying to enter the hand and power tool market after the tremendous shift in American retail sector (toys'r'us, Home Depot, Walmart), and how difficult it would be to compete on price but even more challenging, how to market quality to the largest market segment, DIY'ers, who were used to companies which simply raced to the bottom to offer the cheapest product. It would be nearly impossible to enter that market space without understanding consumers attachment to self-worth in the products they purchase. I'm actually glad they did, now I have the opportunity to purchase accurate equipment, albeit, at a inflated price, in lieu of searching through garage sales for grandpa's heavy duty framing square, planes and chisels.
That being said, I totally agree that there are those would purchase these one offs solely to inflate their self-worth and some of the products offered are laughable to me, but I'm sure there is someone one on a forum right now, bashing me, for buying mafell.
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Post by charley1968 on Dec 12, 2015 9:43:44 GMT -5
Thanx, guys ,for joining..(pun not intended) I do not doubt that WP/BCT products are of an excellent quality and ,more or less, worth their money. Pricewise, there's little difference between Starrett and WP. What makes me think they 're geared towards a collectors market is their use of artificial scarcity as a business plan. That leads to the effect Holmz is so vividly describing. And, yes, that bugs me, 'cuz i'd like to buy that 6' carpenters square but not at a cost of 140bucks and a waiting period of half a year. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/3639287/images/8Vyo_UvZchsYoXV6ow0w.gif)
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Dec 12, 2015 11:19:02 GMT -5
I have and use several different Bridge City Toolworks tools. They are amazing tools in all rights - BCTW's creed is to create tools that are unique, beautiful and functional and I think that they stay true to that in what they produce. They are a very, very small company so as such, they can only produce small runs of products at a time. That model does not work for everyone and that is understandable. But, that is what they do to maintain the high quality of their stuff. The drilling jig is one of the best tools I have ever used and for 90% of my drilling it has eliminated the need for a drill press. Did I have to wait a loooong time for it, you bet. Is it worth it in the end? For me, absolutely and it has allowed me to drill perfectly accurate holes in the end of long boards that would not fit in a drill press. I own a few squares, multi-tools and rules from them and they are all awesome in their own right. It is kind of like Mafell - you really do not understand the value until you plunk down the money and buy something and put it to use. You kind of appreciate things more after the fact.
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Post by Red on Dec 12, 2015 12:09:43 GMT -5
Erik and MTJ make good points. Mafell owners might get a lot of pumping-fist gestures from the DeWalt crowd, but does that mean that we're all effete collectors? No, of course it doesn't. Most of us who've swallowed hard and invested in fine power tools know what it's like to use the very best example of a given design concept -- i.e., the commonly used monicker "track saw" -- so why is putting a highly-refined measurement tool to use on a complicated job any different?
By the way, MTJ's point about BCT being relatively small also applies to Woodpecker Tools. I once spoke to one of their representatives and he stressed the importance of their company being very conservative in a very crowded [and competitive] tool industry.
Interesting thread, Charley.
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Post by charley1968 on Dec 12, 2015 13:48:13 GMT -5
Hm..the comparison between Mafell and WP doesn't hold true, imo...: Mafell doesn't have limited production runs, doesn't advertise machines that are 'OTT', doesn't post vids on youtube about whereabouts your order is in the production process, doesn't require you to sign up on a list to even begin production aso.. It's not the prices nor the quality i'm complaining about, it's their policy of deliberate scarcity i don't get. But mebbe a'm just an ol' scooder not understannin' moddern economix..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 14:28:15 GMT -5
Hey charley The sales model for Woodpeckers could only exist in today's marketplace , take away the "internet" ......back to on the shelf for purchase or a nice printed catalog .
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Post by charley1968 on Dec 12, 2015 14:57:11 GMT -5
Aye,that's true: without the internet i'd never even heard about WP, nor developed a craving , never mind having a gripe with their business-scheme..
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Post by charley1968 on Dec 12, 2015 15:17:46 GMT -5
@ Red, mrToolJunkie: in what way would a higher sales volume affect the quality of their tools adversely? Or to put it another way: why would letting the machinery run for another week ( to meet a demand) , mean worse business even for a mom'n'pop shop?
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