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Post by hemdale on Dec 9, 2015 14:01:00 GMT -5
I recently got a P1cc and couldn't be happier.
Well built and precise. Efficient and reliable (so far). Pretty much what I feel about Festool but in a red color scheme.
Off Topic : Will probably get a few Bosch T308BF Bim blades to test them out since it seems they are THE ultimate blades for the P1cc here...but will definitely try the Wilpu blades from Dieter Fine Tools.
Back to the OT.
I went today to DM Tools in Twinckenham.
Brilliant store with helpful guys. Highly recommended. I haven't taken any pics to avoid looking suspicious.
I had a good long look at the Kapex 120 and yes, it's a beast at 21 kgs and very pricey (with the wheeled stand).
The similar tools from Metabo or Dewalt are even bigger (heavier too ?). If you have this miter saw in your shop and want to bring them on site, you will need the stand as well + wheeled device.
Bringing a miter saw from A to B isn't an easy task.
I saw in Makita's catalogue the LF1000 which is a flip over saw. Very clever. You switch from mitre saw to table saw just flipping the system but at £1200, it's gotta be good or is it just a gimmick ?
For me, the P1cc was a sort of chop saw / mitre saw but only 2000 time more portable. So no regrets here.
But I can see the superb practical aspects of the chop / mitre saws in various situations.
I haven't tried the Erika but I'm really thinking that this tool (not really well known since even DM tools didnt have it) would beat any chop / mitre saw any day ?
Am I blinded or did Mafell had a strike of pure genius ? And you even have 3 Erikas to choose from, I'm just wondering if everyone would take the medium size model 99% of the time thinking the small model would be too small and avoiding the large model thinking it would be too big for most of their tasks.
So why is the Erika not more famous and not competing with more of the chop / mitre saw we got used to ?
Thanks guys.
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Post by holmz on Dec 9, 2015 14:06:26 GMT -5
It is what I am thinking, but probably the large model.
Some have the 70.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Dec 9, 2015 16:33:20 GMT -5
I can't say if mafell got it right with the erika. Yet for myself I feel they did. I had previously used dealt flip saws absolutely hated them. Obviously a fraction of the price yet I never really liked it. If ripping any thick timber it would cut out never very accurate. I also feel that a scms on its own is lacking for work properties fair enough for cross cuts and mitre yet no good for scribes and rips. So even with a scms I would still need a table saw and it would take up extra room. Where with the erika I feel I have everything cowered I want it to-do. Also with the kss saws I also have an extremely handy chopsaw, track saw and circular saw. The only real downside to the erika is price which puts off a lot of people I guess
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Post by Knight Woodworks on Dec 9, 2015 18:12:28 GMT -5
It all comes down to the nature of what you are doing.
Chop saws, usually called compound miter saws (CMS) or sliding compound miter saws (SCMS) are primarily a site carpenters tool. Sure every shop has one or more but they really shine for work at the job site, especially for trim work. Why? Because most trim, (here in the US) requires miters, lots of miters (often not at 45*). Trim around windows and doors usually gets miters, baseboard gets a bevel miter, crown molding needs to be be mitered as well. Miter saws also do a good job of cross cutting and do ok beveling. These saws benefit from a stand and a fence with one or more stops. The Kapex KS 120 weighs 21.5 kg (without a stand etc.) The Erika 70 weighs 32 kg (including the stand) Personally, I have no trouble hauling my Kapex up three flights of stairs, the Erika... Not so easy.
The Erika excels at rips, crosscuts and bevels. It can miter, and do it well, but it's a slow and grudging process. Changing angles, even if moderately, is a project. (If you haven't already done so, check out Woodwright's videos.) In my experience, lots of set up, lots of re-setup when you change angles. To work with material over a meter or or so you'll need to add accessories to the Erika. If I had to cut miters for more than a single door or window with the Erika I'd probably cry.
I have no personal experience with flip saws, so I can't comment.
As a professional carpenter, I appreciate and benefit from having various miter saws, as well as an Erika with its accessories. It's about choosing the right tool for the job.
YMMV
John
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Post by Robland on Dec 9, 2015 18:49:50 GMT -5
I'm no expert. Don't travel or work at job sites. Just a hobbyist. Hard to beat one of the KSS saws for your miter needs. I used my KSS400 corded to trim fascia to cover rafter tails. Worked great. Not sure Erica would have been better. Miter would have worked but trimming a foot from a 16 footer was easy.
I think of Erika as a specialty tool. The pull stroke might scare many. Then there is price, couple with no hands on prior to purchase and not surprised it's a rare beast on US job sites.
I may get one if I get heavy into Intarsia. Thinking of a Victorian street screen in 3 perspective with Christmas theme. Large wall hanging for holiday decorations. Maybe add Advent doors.
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mattuk
Junior Member
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Post by mattuk on Dec 9, 2015 19:04:15 GMT -5
I think its lesser known because of the price. It is however a wonderful tool. I will have a 70 up for grabs in the next week, only one hour east of you Hemdale. It has already been loved, and is now looking for a new owner to keep it company over Xmas  I shall put piccies up in the relevant sale section if its of use to anyone. The KSS400 is also incredibly useful, but there are places where a table saw with the pull function is a better option ( especially on smaller stock ) Cheers Matt |
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Post by GhostFist on Dec 9, 2015 19:45:44 GMT -5
You're wrong about changing angles on the erika. With the mfa it's just as fast as a SCMS. The pull function on the saw far excels the capacity of a scms and beveling is much more controlled and therefore accurate. Erika is a lot heavier so loses in portability and no as practical for long repeated cuts off a stop.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Dec 10, 2015 1:53:35 GMT -5
If you need to work in several locations at same time the kss saws are by far the most mobile solution there is. Where with both the erika and scms you tend to have set up in one location and the kss saws can easily pick up and move to another location very easily
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Post by jasonkehl on Dec 10, 2015 7:43:22 GMT -5
I'm with John on this one. Changing angles on the Erika itself may be fast, but swinging 16' long lengths of material is a hassle made worse by moving the required supports. There is no way running case, base and crown for a house will be anywhere nearly as efficient with an Erika as it would be with a good scms.
I can see the Erika really shining on smaller work pieces. I'd love to own one, to the point of trying to convince myself that I need one, but so far I can't do it.
As already stated it depends on the work you do. Installing cabinetry, built-ins, closet organizers and the like would be great for the Erika.
j
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Post by Knight Woodworks on Dec 10, 2015 9:08:21 GMT -5
Jason nailed it. Changing angles is easy, moving the required supports when changing the angle is not. I've had my Erika with the MFA for a couple of months and as I said, it wouldn't be my first choice for mitering long moldings. I agree, the Erika does a much better job at cross cutting and beveling than a SCMS.
Don't use much S4s trim, virtually all of it is molded. As a result I don't find the KSS to work well for mitering. I did a lot re-trim this summer as a result of water damage from ice damming. Almost none of the angles were 45* and all had to be back cut to varying degrees. While I was able to do it with the KSS 300 it wasn't worth the aggravation. Maybe with more practice I'll get the hang of it.
The KSS saws are great at beveling and cross cutting 1x stock like facia and tall baseboard. Being able to take the saw to the work is often more efficient.
John
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 18:29:28 GMT -5
I recently got a P1cc and couldn't be happier. Well built and precise. Efficient and reliable (so far). Pretty much what I feel about Festool but in a red color scheme. Off Topic : Will probably get a few Bosch T308BF Bim blades to test them out since it seems they are THE ultimate blades for the P1cc here...but will definitely try the Wilpu blades from Dieter Fine Tools. Back to the OT. I went today to DM Tools in Twinckenham. Brilliant store with helpful guys. Highly recommended. I haven't taken any pics to avoid looking suspicious. I had a good long look at the Kapex 120 and yes, it's a beast at 21 kgs and very pricey (with the wheeled stand). The similar tools from Metabo or Dewalt are even bigger (heavier too ?). If you have this miter saw in your shop and want to bring them on site, you will need the stand as well + wheeled device. Bringing a miter saw from A to B isn't an easy task. Exercise is good I saw in Makita's catalogue the LF1000 which is a flip over saw. Very clever. You switch from mitre saw to table saw just flipping the system but at £1200, it's gotta be good or is it just a gimmick ? only you can knowFor me, the P1cc was a sort of chop saw / mitre saw but only 2000 time more portable. So no regrets here. But I can see the superb practical aspects of the chop / mitre saws in various situations. I haven't tried the Erika but I'm really thinking that this tool (not really well known since even DM tools didnt have it) would beat any chop / mitre saw any day ? silly question......Am I blinded or did Mafell had a strike of pure genius ? silly question....... And you even have 3 Erikas to choose from, I'm just wondering if everyone would take the medium size model 99% of the time thinking the small model would be too small and avoiding the large model thinking it would be too big for most of their tasks. So why is the Erika not more famous tools are not for ego and not competing with more of the chop / mitre saw we got used to ? you must have failed economics in college ,apply for refund!Thanks guys. |
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Post by hemdale on Dec 11, 2015 17:39:34 GMT -5
So Joe, tell me more about economics please. Hahaha
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Post by GhostFist on Dec 11, 2015 17:47:47 GMT -5
I don't plan on using my erika for extra long miters. I am planning on building a long horse (collapsible) at level to the saw for the odd time that I might so I will not need to move supports. I'd just rest the long end on the horse. True it won't have the stop ability but I can't see doing more than a few mitered long pieces of the same length on the same project.
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Post by GhostFist on Dec 12, 2015 23:33:53 GMT -5
I am so impressed with this tool
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Post by GhostFist on Dec 13, 2015 7:57:49 GMT -5
Is it me or does the erika seem safer than a miter saw? It's justify so smooth and precise. I'm able to cleanly cut miters and bevels with way less effort. This is much more than a table saw. I keep waiting for the moment where I feel cheated by a mafell product, but every thing I've purchased so far has done nothing but exceed my expectations. I'm not saying the day won't happen, but right now I'm in pure bliss
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I shall put piccies up in the relevant sale section if its of use to anyone.
