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Post by Tom Gensmer on Aug 24, 2015 10:14:45 GMT -5
Alright folks!! I'm rapidly approaching the time when I need to choose between an Erika 70 and an Erika 85 for on-site use here in North America. The Erika 70 is available in 120V through Timberwolf Tools, the Erika 85 is only available in 240V. I am aware that there are many step-up/step-down converters available. I am linking to one below, it is rated at 3000 watts: www.amazon.com/Rockstone-Power-Voltage-Transformer-Converter/dp/B00CLYMMCC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_60_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0X4826GAEMT9MMTW0KDFThis thing weighs roughly 30lbs. So, ultimately, I am really torn here!! Does anybody have experience using these transformers on-site? Do they hold up well? On the one hand, I am not terribly enthused about lugging around a 30 lb transformer. On the other hand, it would open up worlds of possibility, for instance making it much easier to acquire other European tools that are only available in 240V. Any opinions? |
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Aug 24, 2015 11:08:29 GMT -5
We in the uk have use transformers to reduce to 110. The give you two readings. One which is say 3.3 kva and the other that is a continuous rating of 1650. Which is what mine is at the moment and honestly I'm very tempted to throw it in the skip. If I have long lengths to rip it soon trips. Where the better ones have a continuous rating of 2000watt so one of them will be purchased. I was thinking of getting a 5kva but have gone off the idea for a couple of reasons weight and also it can't be plugged in to a 13amp power supply to get its full rating so back to square 1. I don't know if the step transformers have a continuous rating I would certainly find out before laying out the cash on one to find it can't do the job
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Post by GhostFist on Aug 24, 2015 11:26:08 GMT -5
Another solution is to build a portable breaker box with 220 outlets and plug in to stove or fridge outlets. becomes a problem if you're not working near the outlet as then you're running cable but might come in handy.
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Post by Knight Woodworks on Aug 24, 2015 12:20:03 GMT -5
Nice to see you posting again Tom.
No experience with transformers. I do own a W&H molder wired 220 which I occasionally use on site. I made a short extension cord with dryer/range plug on one end and the mate for the molder plug on the other. Worked well the few times I've needed it. Maybe talk to a few hardwood flooring folks to see what they do?
John
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Aug 24, 2015 14:02:59 GMT -5
Nice to see you posting again Tom. No experience with transformers. I do own a W&H molder wired 220 which I occasionally use on site. I made a short extension cord with dryer/range plug on one end and the mate for the molder plug on the other. Worked well the few times I've needed it. Maybe talk to a few hardwood flooring folks to see what they do? John Thanks John! Yeah, this Summer has been out of control busy and my online time has been slashed, hopefully things moderate a bit this Fall and Winter. I I have previously worked for a company that sanded hardwood floors, and yes they regularly would wire a 240V outlet directly out of the panel. For my wants/needs, I'd REALLY rather not muck about with panels or pulling off kitchen or laundry outlets. I regularly work outdoors or in the customer's garage, so I'd prefer to work from the nearest available 120v outlet. If I can do that with a converter, I'm inclined to go with the Erika 85. If using a converter would somehow harm the saw or otherwise not work well, then I'll go the Erika 70 route. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 14:36:23 GMT -5
Hey Tom No way on the transformer for the Erika 85 !!!! First off, a person would need more than 3000 watts in a transformer to work with the Erika load . Most transformer companies say two to three times the expected load ,the 85 Erika draws 2500 watt at full load . The math does not work for a 20 amp 120 volt breaker .New home construction is not a problem for 240 volt , just work with the sparkie to get power . Remodels do present less options , my plan is to move a dryer or pigtail right into a panel .Good luck with your choice ,not a easy one to make.  |
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Aug 24, 2015 15:27:45 GMT -5
Thanks Joe!! Yeah that's what I was afraid of. Unless someone has a conflicting opinion, sounds like I'll go for the 120V Erika 70. Ah, the joys of on-site, gypsy carpentry!
edit: just ran the situation by a friend, and here is his input: "So when I read what he's written I interpret this as a multi volt motor capable of all voltages. If this is the case, you can just re-pin the cable with a standard edison cable add re wire the motor inside. That's usually a 15-30 min project. One I'm happy to help you with. Most motors today are capable of 120/240 sets. A 25$ heavy duty plug end and you'll be ready to go."
What do you think? Can I (my friend) just retire the motor??
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Post by holmz on Aug 24, 2015 17:09:25 GMT -5
I think that the transformer may not be a great idea for a large tool.
However there are 220v plugs in just about every house though in the US.
For smaller tools a transformer seems easy, which basically saves you having to run a plug from the drier to your tools.
Were you looking at the Erika 70 only because of the 120v?
If the motor was easy to switch, Timberwolf would likely do it.
(And they do not)
I heard from 2 sources that the motor was not easy to remove.
Timberwolf's transformer was had to find in the past. (Today I do not see it)
You may want to call them?
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Post by skinee on Aug 24, 2015 17:15:51 GMT -5
I have no knowledge on the electrical side of things but for site use perhaps the 70 would be better with regard to portability,i bought the 85 with the intention of using it for both site work and in my small home workshop (which is on the first floor up a dog leg flight of stairs),but I find the 85 quite bulky and awkward to carry alone,especially upstairs,i chose the 85 for the greater capacity(85mm),longer cut on the pull stroke,wider availability of the 250mm blades than the 225mm of the 70 and the fact that it came with the MFA fence,i am now inclined to leave it in the workshop,plan ahead and bring my rips to it,i have not seen the 70 to compare it with the 85 but on the grounds of portability and the fact that you can get the 70 in a voltage you can use anywhere, it may be your best bet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 17:58:50 GMT -5
Thanks Joe!! Yeah that's what I was afraid of. Unless someone has a conflicting opinion, sounds like I'll go for the 120V Erika 70. Ah, the joys of on-site, gypsy carpentry! edit: just ran the situation by a friend, and here is his input: "So when I read what he's written I interpret this as a multi volt motor capable of all voltages. If this is the case, you can just re-pin the cable with a standard edison cable add re wire the motor inside. That's usually a 15-30 min project. One I'm happy to help you with. Most motors today are capable of 120/240 sets. A 25$ heavy duty plug end and you'll be ready to go." What do you think? Can I (my friend) just retire the motor?? The Erika saws have universal motors , to my knowledge they can not be rewired between voltages . A TEFC or induction motor for woodworking equipment can be rewired if the design allows for it . David Powell at Timberwolftools is the source for electrical expertise with these tools . |
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Post by holmz on Aug 24, 2015 18:18:28 GMT -5
Correct, but they cannot be rewired to change the frequency.
A universal can take both frequencies.
Even the Erika 70 I would probably consider getting in 220v and having said friend do the plug.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Aug 24, 2015 19:19:31 GMT -5
Awesome input fellas, this is really helpful!!
To summarize the above comments, it sounds like a step-down converter is a no-go, at least for the rough and tumble life of on-site work.
There are some great suggestions about tapping into existing 240V outlets (drier, stove, etc....). For myself and the way I work this would be a last resort, but great ideas nonetheless!
A few folks have commented on the bulkiness of the Erika 85, which I frankly hadn't given much thought to. I guess I realized that the 85 was slightly larger and a few pounds heavier than the 70, but I wonder if there is a tipping point regarding size as it relates to portability? I am 6'2" 200 lbs and pretty athletic, that being said I'm trying to slim down the tools I'm transporting, so at that point I'd have to make the call between the slightly greater capacity of the 85, and how that compares to the increased weight, etc....
Finally, my friend mentioned simply rewiring the 240V Universal motor (either 85 or an imported 70) to 120V. My friend is pretty handy in the electrical realm, so I'm inclined to trust his instincts, but I would want to do some more research before I import a really expensive saw, only to find out it can't be converted.....
So, at this point, I'm left to decide which size is best served for on-site, portable work (I'm sure the 70 would cover most of my needs), and whether to go with a prewired 120V saw, or continue to explore importing a 240V saw at significant savings and try to rewire it. Hm....
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Post by holmz on Aug 24, 2015 19:54:59 GMT -5
Tom
The motors are a soft start, so I am not sure that the inrush current requires a transformer rated much higher than steady state. So I would suggest a call to Timberwolf may help - assuming that they still sell the transformer. The cost savings would easily pay for the step-up transformer.
Secondly you may want to get a picture of the motor. I am pretty sure that the motor is DC and/or is controlled by pulse width modulation. This is generally not as simple as an induction motor with obvious tap points for your friend to tap onto.
Lastly when I inquired about pulling the motor off the saw to get the shipping weight below 70 pounds... The answer(s) were 'no'. So I think that getting to it to do any rewiring would be more extensive than 15-30 minutes... Plus combined with the electronics it is unlikely to be reasonable. But this information should be worthwhile to your friend for him to ponder.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Aug 25, 2015 0:06:59 GMT -5
Tom - I had a long conversation with David about the transformers and they said that they have no issues using them and regularly use them with all of the 240 volt tools. The one they have on their website is what they recommend because it will handle the power of any tool they sell and not overload the house circuit. I would trust David. He had recommended them prior to them offering them on their website.
Personally I think that the 85 would be the best all around and most cost effective option since you would not need to upgrade the miter gauge and it has better capacity. Just seems to make the most sense. I would also have a couple of 220 volt extensions with dryer outlet ends and run straight to the wall when possible - heck you could have a few different configurations to account for most plug types and spend less than the transformer...lots of pig-tails and one main extension.
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Post by jonathan on Aug 25, 2015 6:08:02 GMT -5
Hey Tom, I just got an 85 last week.
Haven't had the opportunity yet to try everything out but I can tell you as someone who also needs to be mobile, the 85 is a big and relatively heavy saw when you need to transport it every day. The back legs have a set of wheels on them. Don't expect the wheels to be useful on gravel or dirt, but on a floor or driveway you can roll it around and reposition it quite easily by just tilting up the front. It's also worth mentioning it deploys extremely fast. Everything is dead simple and quick to set up.
The short and sweet of it is that it's a really nice table saw with tons of functionality, but it isn't the smallest nor lightest. Further ramblings below
And here is where it might get difficult to express how I feel about it... In short I'm happy with my choice and I love the saw, but
I do curse from time to time when I have to muscle it through tighter surroundings like a small residential doorway or flight of stairs. If you ask me the choice really comes down to a persons priorities: Portability or functionality. Sure the 70 is every bit as functional as the 85, as it's just a smaller version. But for me personally, I went with the Erika 85 for the long pull function and longer table surface.
It folds down into a really compact package for it's size and the difference in weight between the 85 & 70 is negligible to me. The saw can be picked up really easy and comfortably as underneath the front and back dovetail profile, it is rounded off. Folded up it's a nice rectangle and fits nicely into a van.
For a portable saw, this thing is remarkably stable with the easiest way to level the feet I've ever seen. It has a nice long table surface so depending on the work, it's quite possible you won't need any outfeed table or roller for most of your work, which is one of the reason I love it. And I simply love the 430mm pull stroke. I love how I don't need a miter sled anymore for cross cuts.
I also own a Kapex and although it's very very early days with the Erika, I'm starting to think I won't need such an expensive miter saw anymore, because all I'm using it for now is mouldings.
I'll try to convey some of these thoughts in pictures when I get home later on today.
And oh yeah, provided you use the blade guard shroud, this thing has some pretty good dust collection! |
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