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Post by Robland on Jun 7, 2015 23:06:15 GMT -5
I'm considering purchasing European 240v/50hz Mafell tools and have a question. I assume all 240 volts are distributed down one side/leg of a 2 prog European plug. I would need a voltage transformer/converter to double my USA 120 and have 240 on one side of the European plug.
I naively thought 240 in Europe was the same as 240 in USA, like my large HP motors, air compressor, table saw, wide belt sander..but not the case?
I'm also emailing one of the European suppliers, same question.
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Post by Red on Jun 8, 2015 0:08:21 GMT -5
I'm considering purchasing European 240v/50hz Mafell tools and have a question. I assume all 240 volts are distributed down one side/leg of a 2 prog European plug. I would need a voltage transformer/converter to double my USA 120 and have 240 on one side of the European plug. I naively thought 240 in Europe was the same as 240 in USA, like my large HP motors, air compressor, table saw, wide belt sander..but not the case? I'm also emailing one of the European suppliers, same question. Robland: Please click on the Messages link [above] and check your Inbox for a Personal Message (PM).
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Post by holmz on Jun 8, 2015 2:01:49 GMT -5
I'm considering purchasing European 240v/50hz Mafell tools and have a question. I assume all 240 volts are distributed down one side/leg of a 2 prog European plug. I would need a voltage transformer/converter to double my USA 120 and have 240 on one side of the European plug. I naively thought 240 in Europe was the same as 240 in USA, like my large HP motors, air compressor, table saw, wide belt sander..but not the case? I'm also emailing one of the European suppliers, same question. Legal disclaimer: get a Sparkie. The wire colours are different in the Eu (blue and brown). And the current is sourced and sunk from one to the other. However from the perspectives of the wires the voltage is only a differential between them. So one could tie one side to ground and then it would appear as live and neutral. Or both sides can be floated. What happens in the 110 to 230v transformer is probably trying the 230v neutral to the 110v neutral. In at least one of Mafell's tools there is no specific ground and the motor is fully isolated. I "had" a friend once on the end of an aluminium bodied drill where the house was wired with neutral live rather than neutral. God bless Dirk's soul. That is also why the modern gear is not electrically tied to the body, and why motors are isolated. Regardless of how you measure it US 220v is push and pull, and euro is single ended. If you only measure across the two wires you would have no way of knowing this, and the motor also does not care. If you check out the big transformer on the electrical pole, you will find there are 2 wires (probably with 14kv). In the Eu, Aus, etc, these are transformed to 220, 230 or 240v. In the US that same transformer generates two 110/120v streams that are 180 degrees apart, so there is a "center tap" on the transformer for referencing the voltage... Which is called neutral. You can tie that neutral anywhere, so neutral is more the intent of it, than any real reference. If you cannot find a sparkle it is easiest, safest, and probably smartest to buy the transformer, they (timber wolf) sells them and they work. It is a no brainer to buy the transformer.
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Post by Red on Jun 8, 2015 2:08:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure what happened to you, Robland, but I'll do my best with the information you supplied ...
If you have a 230/240V 60Hz supplied electrical circuit in the US, which was wired in accordance with the NEC (the US standard), 230V/50Hz Mafell hand-held tools imported from Germany -- which are equipped with universal motors -- will function as designed: as long as the power cord is PROPERLY converted in accordance with the NEC wiring standards.
Please seek electrical advice from someone qualified in the electrical field before attempting to modify any type of electrical circuitry, which includes hand-held power tools. Your tools are very valuable and, more importantly, so is the health and safety of anyone coming into contact with a modified electrical tool.
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Post by holmz on Jun 29, 2015 7:00:01 GMT -5
So on my newly arrive German extension cord the German plugs in either way... It is not polarised like a US plug with a ground or an Au plug.
This begs the question as to whether it matter for people in Germany and whether they can ply their tools into the outlet right side up or upside down?
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 29, 2015 7:28:53 GMT -5
I've no idea. I did notice when I was in germany and when I plugged my phone charger in rhe travel adapter it didn't seem to care which way and worked. Also when I got the new cordless it come with a 2 pin euro plug which then goes in to a 3 pin uk plug to fit uk sockets. My guess is its making the circuit and doesn't care which way as long as thier is positive and a negative
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Post by Red on Jun 29, 2015 11:37:16 GMT -5
We own and operate imported German tools -- Mafell and other brands -- and I haven't come across one yet that wasn't double-insulated. This, more or less, takes the typical grounding issues out of the equation.
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Post by Red on Jun 29, 2015 12:44:23 GMT -5
After giving the present question a bit more thought, I wanted to point out that the "Euro Plug" -- typically used in Germany -- is not a very safe way to make an electrical connection.
In an ideal situation, all electrical devices would be powered via an electrical supply that employs a double-pole mains switch of some kind. Sadly, a Euro Plug equipped power cord doesn't, so please be careful when using one.
Please consider using an Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker (ELCB) to supply anything being hooked up via a German extension cord (the type of cord with a Euro Plug connected to it). As ever, Safety First.
Take Good Care, Red
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 29, 2015 13:53:35 GMT -5
Not too sure if you mean the same as a rcd unit on all fuse boards also if using 240 power tools a rcd unit should be used and tested daily at the start of the day
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Post by holmz on Jun 29, 2015 15:32:34 GMT -5
Not too sure if you mean the same as a rcd unit on all fuse boards also if using 240 power tools a rcd unit should be used and tested daily at the start of the day Probably... And I believe that also means that if you plug it in upside down, then the everything is live internally and the switch lets the power out... Rather than everything internally cold until the switch lets the power in. Whereas a double pole switch disconnects both side with separate in and out switches on the same switch.
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Post by Red on Jun 29, 2015 23:37:44 GMT -5
As there may be a bit of confusion about this, I thought that I'd offer a bit more clarity to the discussion.
Having settled in the US, I would call a residual current device (RCD) a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt (GFCI). In the UK, this type of device is often referred to as an RCD or an RCBO (Residual Current Breaker with Overload protection), but, as this part of the discussion began with a question about the proper use of a German extension cord, I thought that I'd refer to the safety device I suggested using as it's often referred to in Germany -- an Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker (ELCB).
NOTE: An ELCB can also be designed to do its thing (trip OFF) when residual voltage is sensed.
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Post by Red on Jun 29, 2015 23:48:29 GMT -5
I accidentally left this part out of the previous post ... A double-pole RCD or ELCB is typically designed to disconnect both conductors -- aka, trip to the OFF position -- when a fault is sensed.
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