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Post by jalvis on Mar 14, 2015 21:58:12 GMT -5
So I'm planning on putting wide plank pine floors in my new home and considering some finish options. Planks will be no wider then 8" and face nailed using cut nails. Also plan on using the DD40 to attach boards rather then tongue and groove to avoid cupping.
So what are the best finishes for this type of floor? I was hoping to go old school with a penetrating oil. I know this type of floor is still really common in Scandinavian countries but its difficult to get information without speaking the language.
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Post by lincoln on Mar 15, 2015 5:54:15 GMT -5
Can't help with the finish, but that is going to be a decent workout for your DD!
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Mar 15, 2015 7:35:28 GMT -5
Not sure the dd40 will help to avoid cupping. The most important thing is obviously to make sure the timber is well seasoned. Stress realeasing grooves will help to prevent cupping as you are basically reducing the surface tension on the underside of the board. A wide surface will always have more movement than a narrow surface and by having stress relief grooves on the bottom reduces the surface area making it more stable. Or at least helps it. Another thing is not sure if will apply to pine flooring. When laying oak flooring it is recommended every 1m or 3-4' to leave a penny gap. Which is about 1.5mm. Then obviously have your perimeter gaps around the outside. Found some interesting reading here on southern pine flooring www.southernpine.com/faq/#southernpineinteriorflooringAnother thing I found is a company doing reclaimed pine flooring. No idea if it relevant to where you are or want to do. Here is the link www.tworiverstradingco.net/flooring/pine/ |
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Post by jalvis on Mar 15, 2015 12:23:50 GMT -5
Your recommendations help. The wood I'm considering is kiln dried furniture grade white pine. Moisture content is usually 6-8%. I have installed over 4,000 board feet of this material on walls without any cupping in the last two years.
I could easily add grooves to the underside with the shaper and power feeder to help avoid cupping. The planks will be set on a subfloor and from my research its best to use a vapor barrier(tar paper) to avoid seeping moisture and squeaks.
Any information or recommendations are welcome. Thanks!
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Post by jimbouk on Mar 15, 2015 15:50:01 GMT -5
For finishing we have used osmo oil a lot. They have a wide range of colours and finishes that are easy to apply and look great. They are also easy to adapt if the floor gets damaged and they need to be repaired. That type of wood is often oiled with a white or grey finish. Keep us posted with pics of the progress.
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Post by Knight Woodworks on Mar 15, 2015 16:14:12 GMT -5
Jalvis,
i agree that relief cuts on the undersides are a good idea. No experience using dowels in this manner, I'd be inclined to plow grooves in the end grain and use loose splines or biscuits if you have a biscuit joiner. What ever you choose on the ends keep it as low as possible so as to get the maximum amount of refinishing. If your flooring is going over climate controled space then rosin paper is fine, if the space below isn't habitable use felt paper. No advice re: oil finishes.
Best of luck, I'm sure the floors will be awesome when you're done.
John
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Post by 7 on Mar 15, 2015 23:45:04 GMT -5
I would assume that even with a soft wood like pine the same finishes that are most typical for any wood flooring would be the best options. My understanding is that the penetrating oil finishes would work but not be very durable. The most durable that I am aware of are the Acid cured variety (commonly referred to as "swedish finish". They dry reasonably fast and are very hard.
The other two main & most common options are the basic poly-urethenes, water based & oil based. You likely already know the positives & negatives of each, if not I can shed some more light on that subject.
I like the idea of milling a tounge & groove into the wood because it makes it fast and easy to install and has good hold down. I actually milled my own floor in my previous house- ran it all through a planer then added the tounge & groove to each board. After that experience I have always been very glad to pay the extra for the wood that is already milled and ready to install.
Of all the wood flooring I have installed my favorite by a long way is anything from Muscanell Millworks, Cortez Colorado. Mostly long lengths and their milling is very consistent making the the install a lot easier. If I remeber correctly jalvis, you are in Idaho or Oregon so I am sure you have either heard of muscanell or they would at least stock them at your local suppliers. If you are commited to the wide plank pine and cut nail look you could still do the tounge & groove with a typical installation then add the cut nails through the surface...I think your idea would look really cool.
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Post by jalvis on Mar 16, 2015 10:34:41 GMT -5
My current oak floor has a Swedish Glitsa finish and its great. My goals for the future are quite different for living and maintenance. My goal is to build a timeless home that will "patina" and age into beauty. That means use and imperfections over time adds to the overall quality. To achieve this with the least cost requires old methods and styles be used which is why I'm avoiding topical finishes especially in soft wood. If I use a penetrating oil as the floor wears I can re-oil and everything blends together without sanding.
I'm just having a hard time getting adequate information since this method is extremely uncommon in the USA. Unfortunately the "World Wide Web" is somewhat closed now days. My wife and I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out how to search world wide. Still can't get past the localised censoring in the modern search engines.
I'm also avoiding any machining that requires a tongue and groove for the reasons mentioned above. Too much work and effort and would be better to buy at that point. Plank floors are suppose to have somewhat of a gap between boards anyway. Also hoping to speed up install by face nailing and really like the look of cut nails. White Pine is $1.45 a square foot(4/4) and thats furniture grade kiln dried selected in 6 or 8 inch widths. That will make for a unique floor thats timeless and at a low cost.
It would be handy to know an english speaking Norwegian woodworker since this method is still being used in Scandinavia. Although I'm certainly getting closer with everyones help. This community is a real benefit.
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R cash
Junior Member
Posts: 73 
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Post by R cash on Mar 16, 2015 13:14:11 GMT -5
A client did this same type of floor with 1"1/2 pine he had it half lapped and screwed and plug. It was laid over radiant heat the wood was under 10 percent moisture but it shrank quite a bit. The boards were wider than you are planning to use like 10" or 12".
if it were me I would prefinish all the boards all faces with Waterlox before putting down since tongue an grove is out.
Waterlox is a tung oil / high solids floor finish that can be used like penetrating oil or like varnish for a higher build up. Easy to repair
This product is works great for furniture as well
Have a great day
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Post by jalvis on Mar 17, 2015 13:30:11 GMT -5
.....I would prefinish all the boards all faces with Waterlox before putting down since tongue an grove is out. Waterlox is a tung oil / high solids floor finish that can be used like penetrating oil or like varnish for a higher build up. Easy to repair This product is works great for furniture as well If I'm not planning on blind nailing do you think tongue and groove is still a good idea? I think coating the entire board like you mentioned would be better to avoid cupping. |
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Mar 17, 2015 13:56:37 GMT -5
In scotland traditionally when laying whitewood T&G flooring it is cheeked nailed. Where in England it is face nailed. I have porta nailer the nail shoe or whatever it is called can be changed to allow it to be used to face nail
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Post by 7 on Mar 17, 2015 22:20:24 GMT -5
Another option but might be more work also: I can't see a reason why it wouldn't work to use a standard wood flooring stapler even without a tounge in the wood planks. You could likely use the DD40 on the side that is usually grooved then still staple it through the side that is usually the tounge just setting the compressor pressure a little bit high so the staples sink right below the surface. Really there are a lot of good ways to attach the floor down besides T&G. A combination of the cut nails (which for some reason I really like the look of also, they seem like they are from another era even though concrete guys still use them all the time) and common screws through the face and plugged with the pine. Anyway, I think there are a dozen good ways to anchor the floor down.
I think any penetrating oil would work such as teak oil, Danish oil, or Linseed oil. As you already mentioned they wouldn't hold up as perfectly long term but would be really easy to re-apply in the high traffic areas. I agree also that the natural patina and wear on a wood floor looks great, kinda like leather over time.
I am a fan of the out of the box thinking. I installed a floor in my house that is smooth sanded plywood, bondo on screw holes and seams & sand smooth, then 2 coats of floor paint, then 3 coats of waterbased polyurethane. We have been happy with it, both looks and performance.
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