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Rokamat
Dec 8, 2014 19:52:39 GMT -5
Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 8, 2014 19:52:39 GMT -5
Does anybody have any experience with this brand? www.rokamat.com/en/I came across them when I was researching the various rebranded Starmix vacs available in North America. They are based in Germany, and seem to focus on dustless sanding and grinding tools. The interesting element to most of their tools is that the motor is an angle grinder that you wear on your hip, and the sanding or grinding head is powered via a long flex shaft. The Tapir 35M is a rebranded Starmix, and the grinder motors appear to be Metabo, so they certainly seem to be using top-shelf components. I sent them a message on their web page, and was immediately contacted by a representative based in New York who informed me that Rokamat distributes directly to customers. The representative was very polite and immediately answered all of the questions I posed to him, and he shared some price lists on the specific tools I was inquiring about. Cost-wise, Rokamat is up there in the Mafell category, and I can only assume their products perform accordingly. Sometime in 2015 I might be in the market for a dedicated drywall sander. I was going to buy a Festool Planex, but the Rokamat Gecko and Gecko Rapid look like VERY nice tools. Alas, there's not much info about them online.  Gecko: www.rokamat.com/en/produkte/grinders/rokamat-gecko/ Gecko Rapid: www.rokamat.com/en/produkte/grinders/gecko-rapid/As mentioned above, the Tapir 35M is the Rokamat-branded Starmix vac. This vac seems to come with some extra accessories beyond what my Metabo shipped with (blanking plug, anti-static hose, etc....), but the cost is significantly greater. That being said, if Rokamat provides greater support for their vac than Metabo, that would help soften the blow if I were to buy a few of these.  Tapir 35M: www.rokamat.com/en/produkte/staubsauger/tapir-m35/Anyways, I'm curious to hear if anybody has any experience with this brand, or (even better!) the above products? Thanks!!
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Rokamat
Dec 8, 2014 20:44:42 GMT -5
Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 8, 2014 20:44:42 GMT -5
Wow. Sent the rep a message inquiring about the Gecko sanders, received a reply message within minutes (this is around "Dinner Time"). That certainly bodes well for a responsive customer service experience.  Responding to a question regarding the difference between the Gecko sanders, he responded: "Gecko Rapid is too fast for USA drywall mud. It is good for polishing certain Venetian plasters to a glossy finish using high grit paper. The regular Gecko at 1700 rpm is still 88% faster than the 900 rpm Planex." Well, that answers that!! :-)
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Rokamat
Dec 8, 2014 23:24:27 GMT -5
Post by jalvis on Dec 8, 2014 23:24:27 GMT -5
I dont do drywall and hope I never have to. BUT if i did the Planex would be the first tool on the list.
Those Gecko sander look crazy strong by the way.
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Post by jonathan on Dec 9, 2014 1:24:29 GMT -5
haven't seen Rokamat in the field yet. The Flex Giraffe is somewhat of a standard around here from what I've seen. Might also be worth checking out
I like the concept of decoupling the motor weight from a tool you have to suspend overhead a lot though.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 9, 2014 9:01:07 GMT -5
I dont do drywall and hope I never have to. BUT if i did the Planex would be the first tool on the list. Those Gecko sander look crazy strong by the way. Alas, as a remodeler I frequently find myself working on projects that are too small for my drywall contractor, so I frequently find myself performing the work myself. I'm less concerned about raw speed, and more interested in working relatively "dust-free". My RO-150 has worked remarkably well to date, but it's a bear to use it on ceilings. Thanks to Jonathan for the link to the Flex product, I'll check it out as well! :-)
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Rokamat
Dec 9, 2014 14:01:35 GMT -5
Post by jalvis on Dec 9, 2014 14:01:35 GMT -5
Yes, the RO150 does a number with drywall. Its great! Really hate the task and only do it for myself to save the money but even then I'm not great at matching textures.
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Rokamat
Dec 9, 2014 22:14:51 GMT -5
Post by 7 on Dec 9, 2014 22:14:51 GMT -5
I dont do drywall and hope I never have to. BUT if i did the Planex would be the first tool on the list. Those Gecko sander look crazy strong by the way. Alas, as a remodeler I frequently find myself working on projects that are too small for my drywall contractor, so I frequently find myself performing the work myself. I'm less concerned about raw speed, and more interested in working relatively "dust-free". My RO-150 has worked remarkably well to date, but it's a bear to use it on ceilings. Thanks to Jonathan for the link to the Flex product, I'll check it out as well! :-) I can relate to being a small time drywaller by default. I have a guy that is willing to take the small jobs "to keep me happy" but I still feel bad about it knowing they are more of a nuisance. I also find that most drywall guys don't use any dust collection which makes me look bad. Also I can actually make a little bit on a few patches because I can coat it then do other tasks during dry time instead of leaving & coming back etc. I use my mirka 5" with the abranet paper and it gets all the dust & is lighter than even the RO90. A wet spounge takes a little longer but is another decent method for sanding drywall mud with no dust in really small areas like patches. Sounds like you might be doing entire rooms though.
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Rokamat
Dec 9, 2014 22:46:19 GMT -5
Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 9, 2014 22:46:19 GMT -5
Alas, as a remodeler I frequently find myself working on projects that are too small for my drywall contractor, so I frequently find myself performing the work myself. I'm less concerned about raw speed, and more interested in working relatively "dust-free". My RO-150 has worked remarkably well to date, but it's a bear to use it on ceilings. Thanks to Jonathan for the link to the Flex product, I'll check it out as well! :-) I can relate to being a small time drywaller by default. I have a guy that is willing to take the small jobs "to keep me happy" but I still feel bad about it knowing they are more of a nuisance. I also find that most drywall guys don't use any dust collection which makes me look bad. Also I can actually make a little bit on a few patches because I can coat it then do other tasks during dry time instead of leaving & coming back etc. I use my mirka 5" with the abranet paper and it gets all the dust & is lighter than even the RO90. A wet spounge takes a little longer but is another decent method for sanding drywall mud with no dust in really small areas like patches. Sounds like you might be doing entire rooms though. Alas, I am mostly sanding kitchen, bathrooms, and the occasional patch job. For instance, I have a project Minneapolis I'll be patching this weekend where I had to open up a wall and ceiling to fix a noisy radiator pipe (it was rubbing against framing members). So, now I have a single stud bay on the wall, and a channel ~14"x48" that I need to rock, mud and sand. Less than 1 sheet of rock, but it's still a decent amount of sanding (I still need to improve my abilities to apply a tight coat of mud) in a kitchen. Rather than sit there with a sanding sponge sanding by hand, dropping dust on the floor that needs to be cleaned up, I much prefer to come in with a nice powered sander, achieve the same finished results, but with less effort on my part, with less dust in the air and on the ground. I agree that tackling my own smaller drywall work allows me to multitask a bit, working on other punch list items in between coats of mud. I'm glad to hear that you like the Mirka sander!! It seems like a great tool for the task, I may need to look into it.
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Rokamat
Dec 9, 2014 23:14:28 GMT -5
Post by 7 on Dec 9, 2014 23:14:28 GMT -5
I am a big fan of the Mirka Ceros. They sell it in a 6" version for the same price as the 5".
I mentioned above but might not have been completely clear since there are sanding spounges too... another decent method is using a regular yellow sponge soaked in water (used fairly wet). It will smooth (sand) the regular drywall mud smooth with absolutely no dust. I really only use that method for small patches, like 5" squares, where you are running wiring. If the patch is very big then it's worth it to bring in the vac & sander because it is so much faster.
Tom- My festool vacs seem to do alright with the drywall dust in the limited quantities that I sand. Is there a big improvement with your new metabo vac?
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Rokamat
Dec 10, 2014 2:18:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by wrightwoodwork on Dec 10, 2014 2:18:56 GMT -5
Alas, as a remodeler I frequently find myself working on projects that are too small for my drywall contractor, so I frequently find myself performing the work myself. I'm less concerned about raw speed, and more interested in working relatively "dust-free". My RO-150 has worked remarkably well to date, but it's a bear to use it on ceilings. Thanks to Jonathan for the link to the Flex product, I'll check it out as well! :-) I can relate to being a small time drywaller by default. I have a guy that is willing to take the small jobs "to keep me happy" but I still feel bad about it knowing they are more of a nuisance. I also find that most drywall guys don't use any dust collection which makes me look bad. Also I can actually make a little bit on a few patches because I can coat it then do other tasks during dry time instead of leaving & coming back etc. I use my mirka 5" with the abranet paper and it gets all the dust & is lighter than even the RO90. A wet spounge takes a little longer but is another decent method for sanding drywall mud with no dust in really small areas like patches. Sounds like you might be doing entire rooms though. I don't do any drywall apart from sheeting. I can definitely relate to guys not using any dust collection. Then they leave a pile of dust around the edge of the rooms. I honestly prefer a skim coat of plaster, put it on wait then polish it off job done. The only problem is the people doing need more skills to do compared to drywall
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Rokamat
Dec 10, 2014 22:22:54 GMT -5
7 likes this
Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 10, 2014 22:22:54 GMT -5
I am a big fan of the Mirka Ceros. They sell it in a 6" version for the same price as the 5". I mentioned above but might not have been completely clear since there are sanding spounges too... another decent method is using a regular yellow sponge soaked in water (used fairly wet). It will smooth (sand) the regular drywall mud smooth with absolutely no dust. I really only use that method for small patches, like 5" squares, where you are running wiring. If the patch is very big then it's worth it to bring in the vac & sander because it is so much faster. Tom- My festool vacs seem to do alright with the drywall dust in the limited quantities that I sand. Is there a big improvement with your new metabo vac?Great question!! For starters, there are three bags options available to me: Fleece, paper, and open topped plastic. Based on reading the Starmix manual and my e-mail correspondence with the Rokamat representative, I've gathered the following: Fleece filters are well suited to general cleaning, including wet clean up. Starmix recommends the Paper bags for "extremely fine dust, such as flour", while it sounds like the open topped plastic bags are well suited to drywall and concrete extraction. My experience with the Festool vacs is similar to yours, in that they are generally well suited to limited drywall pick up. I've been using the Festool CT-26 Fleece bags in my Metabo vac and they seem to work great. Something interesting though is I definitely notice a film on the inside surfaces of the vacuum, pointing to the amount of fine dust that gets through the fleece bag. My experience is that, after a certain threshold of sanding drywall or grinding/cutting concrete/plaster/stucco is that the performance of the fleece bags drops off significantly, even though the bag is only ~1/4 full. My theory is that the dust is actually saturating the pores of the bag, and no amount of "self cleaning" can remedy the situation. I believe this is why most vacs designed for this fine dust simply skip the filter bag, and rely on mechanical agitation of the primary filter to maintain suction. Something interesting I've noticed with the self-cleaning vacs is that they can shed cementitious dust reasonably well, they struggle to release very light, "airy" particles like insulation. I've only tried one paper bag, it seemed to work well other than blowing a hole in the back. Not sure what caused it, but suspect the bottom of the vac what still somewhat wet from a previous project, and that the moisture compromised the strength of the paper. Long term, my plan is to use fleece bags for general clean up and extraction duties, and switch over to the open top plastic bags when I plan on performing prolonged extraction of drywall/concrete/plaster/stucco dust. I'll post up a separate thread on my experience with the ASR 35 in a month or two, after I've had a little more time to fully familiarize myself with it.
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Rokamat
Dec 10, 2014 22:25:54 GMT -5
Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 10, 2014 22:25:54 GMT -5
I can relate to being a small time drywaller by default. I have a guy that is willing to take the small jobs "to keep me happy" but I still feel bad about it knowing they are more of a nuisance. I also find that most drywall guys don't use any dust collection which makes me look bad. Also I can actually make a little bit on a few patches because I can coat it then do other tasks during dry time instead of leaving & coming back etc. I use my mirka 5" with the abranet paper and it gets all the dust & is lighter than even the RO90. A wet spounge takes a little longer but is another decent method for sanding drywall mud with no dust in really small areas like patches. Sounds like you might be doing entire rooms though. I don't do any drywall apart from sheeting. I can definitely relate to guys not using any dust collection. Then they leave a pile of dust around the edge of the rooms. I honestly prefer a skim coat of plaster, put it on wait then polish it off job done. The only problem is the people doing need more skills to do compared to drywall That's the case in my area as well. I've only seen plaster applied on a handful of projects in my 13 years as a remodeler, and they were very boutique projects. It seems to be a fading art, which is too bad because some of the best built houses I've worked on have plaster walls, particularly the 1950's houses in my area where they have the 16" wide sheetrock lathe topped with plaster, with steel mesh in the corners. Talk about a solid wall!!
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Rokamat
Dec 11, 2014 12:04:00 GMT -5
Post by jalvis on Dec 11, 2014 12:04:00 GMT -5
Hand applied plasters are certainly my favorite. Its amazing how much more alive and inviting a space becomes when skilled hand work is done. Modern Drywall with sprayed textures leave a lot to be desired. I'm so tired of it that my new house won't have any drywall.
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Rokamat
Dec 11, 2014 18:43:01 GMT -5
Post by Knight Woodworks on Dec 11, 2014 18:43:01 GMT -5
It's regional.
In New England a veneer of plaster applied to blue board is standard for residential work. Commercial projects get Sheetrock.
I agree that traditional two or three coat plaster is pretty much a thing of the past. Both my grandfather and my father were plasterers who specialized in ornamental plastering. At the time I had no interest, wish I had, 'cause I sure would like to know now.
John
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