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Post by wrightwoodwork on Nov 18, 2014 18:42:42 GMT -5
As we all know dust extraction is becoming the big thing on sites and rightly so. My problem seems to be thinking of a viable soloution. The problem is basically lack of power on site. Most power tools can be got in a cordless version which works great and is really useful. Until the site management decide they want dust extraction used with them or a dust bag. My thinking is that dust bags on power tools is pointless. I've used in the past on electric planers. As soon as you use it is full. Also I believe that you can't guarantee the airflow through them and therefore don't meet any regulations. May look the part as if you are trying. To me unless they work effectively at reducing the dust level there is no point in it. I have the dust masks to hand. Which really should be the last line of defence.
I'm basically trying to think of a sensible soloution. I had a look at the hilti cordless vac which I thought might be ok despite the high price. The problem is it will only run for approximately 30 minutes and at a cost of almost £1800 doesn't seem wise to spend the money. If it worked every bit as good as a corded vac I would maybe consider it. Has anybody user the little dewalt cordless vacs with tools and is it a sensible soloution and effective at dust control. Or the other option is do go for an inverter generator which are small and light. Maybe a little on the pricey side compared to a standard generator. I have looked at the honda eu2 at roughly £1200 which has continous rating of 1600. So I guess would be fine for the vac on its own and the cordless saw. Just nothing else. Or for the same money I could get one of the honda eg4500 generators. Then if I got I could then think about to the kss80 for the hip roofs and heavier work. If they supplied power I wouldnt have these issues it's just working out the best all round
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Post by 7 on Nov 18, 2014 20:50:25 GMT -5
It sounds like the regulators prefer you to go out of business and stay at home playing video games so nobody gets hurt and everyone has clean lungs. Sounds like you live in an area that makes it really difficult to run a business.
I have no experience with the cordless vacs. I think given the choice between the two evils I would choose the generator, pay for fuel, and move ahead with the cords. Those rules all just seems so senseless.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Nov 19, 2014 1:26:08 GMT -5
Yeah that's what I'm thinking. It's basically hiding behind rules and regulations, so you can't sue them.
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Post by toomanytoys on Nov 19, 2014 9:15:45 GMT -5
I've had the EU2000i, EU3000is, and EU6500is over the years, currently only the EU2000i as I'm now working alone. I've gotten to the point that I find myself half the time move the 2000 to where I'm working rather then put out the 100ft 12ga extension that I have. I've purchased the stabilized versions as I want the most stable output for the equipment I have that uses electronics in its control. With the 2k I've run my Fein vac and tools without issue.
Generators came in real handy during the hurricane Sandy aftermath, and I might be picking up another EU3000is soon considering how this winter is starting to play out.
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Post by jalvis on Nov 19, 2014 12:03:59 GMT -5
Certainly sounds like a generator is in order. I like the small honda's as well. Would certainly get a small one that is easy to move around.
Although I would probably ignore the site manager unless he was there or risk it and see what happens. Seems like a dumb rule and perhaps you can find an alternative. I would ask why this is required in an email. If its to protect YOU from the dust then I would wear a mask. Naturally he will not like your response but I would then point to the written email. Also if its not in the contract I wouldn't follow this kind of nonsense. I'm a negotiator and enjoy finding solutions so my response might be different then yours.
I would also consider the dust bags and just not empty then when there full. Your meeting there regulations and you saved some serous cash on the generator. Plus you don't have all the set up time.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Nov 19, 2014 14:06:47 GMT -5
well i sent nma an email and mafell an email yesterday and had a couple of emails from nma about what type of generator to go for basically if you are running any of the cuprex motors they are to be run on the new style digital or the inverter generators that have constant power source and dont dip in power when a load is apllied and react instantley unfortunatley the rules are the rules and no email will change them. I think i will go for the Honda eg5500 and have it ready inthe van when i get moaned at . Then when i need a lift Iwill just ask the fork lift driver to move it . I'm all for being save and looking after my welfare I do it for my benifit and not thiers
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Post by jalvis on Nov 19, 2014 16:27:40 GMT -5
I don't think theres a real strong health risk with air born wood dust regarding job site tools. After doing a fair amount of research almost all health problems occur from exotic hardwoods, heart redwood, and cedar. Last year I worked for several days in the shop with cedar and ended up getting whats called "cedar fever." Its like the flue. High temperatures, you feel horrible with nausea, and your appetite is near gone. The only other woods that cause recorded health problems are engineered products because of the glues. Dust is only part of the risk but my greatest concern has always been cutting a finger or limb. I'm most afraid of falling off a ladder or roof which has caused the most severe injures I've seen on the job site.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Nov 19, 2014 16:43:06 GMT -5
I totally agree with you most of what is cut on site is mdf so the glue are what is harmful. The other thing people who work with concrete and have being cutting fir years are now getting tested for silica. These companies have what is called a health and saftey policy and it is a way to hide around the rules. My biggest fear is properly a fall.
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Post by 7 on Nov 19, 2014 20:17:42 GMT -5
The rule I have a hard time understanding is the electricity one. I don't understand any way that properly run electricity increases danger for anyone. Why do they have rules against regular power? Having power makes it really easy to keep tools hooked to vacuums and take care of the airborne dust etc. The rest- dust, silica, a clean job site etc etc all have at least a small point whether it should be enforced is another conversation but I just can't think of a reason to not be able to use standard electricity...unless the job foreman is Amish  . You are more likely to injure your back moving your generator than getting zapped by the power. |
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Nov 20, 2014 2:05:27 GMT -5
Truthfully money saving exercise I think. The rule is in hse that all electric should be made safe. So fair enough then the recommended is that only 110 tools should be used with center taped transformer. So the 2 lives are 55v making 110. Then if you do get a shock is only 55. Unless the job can't be carried out safely with 110 as the tools will not cope and aren't powerful enough then 240 can be used as long as their is a rcd and it has being tested. They don't have a policy against electric they just don't provide until somebody moves in. So basically money saving exercise. On some sites they have like a box for the power to go into the plots and as long as water tight and can't get wet scottish power will fit or whoever is the electricity company. They are only interested in making maximum money for themselves building and cables are a trip hazards. I have eyes. If power was provided then the rules would be easy to follow
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Post by jalvis on Nov 20, 2014 12:07:06 GMT -5
Too many rules to "protect" the non thinking. Rules without consideration are just rules. Perfect example of why I'm moving everything into another county. In my area lots of shops are moving to rural areas and small counties to avoid non-sense rules and keep costs reasonable. The only guys staying are big shops that have been around multiple generations or those who aren't reading the signs. I'm finding the best way to make more money is to lower my costs particularly in property taxes and utilities. Secondly by producing my own heat and food.
I'm all for sensible rules but its getting prohibitive. Lots of shops are closing due to spray booth requirements. The cost for a "proper" spray booth is easily $50-80K. Too much for small shops so only the big guys get to stay. Last year they past a rule that anyone above 8 feet must wear a harness. Crazy! You can't even get on a ladder without a harness. Non-sense. Its a rule that most won't fallow and is nothing more than grounds for a law suit when something happens.
Sorry about the rant but this kind of stuff is too close to home.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Nov 20, 2014 22:38:49 GMT -5
Hi Aaron! To some extent I feel your pain. I have a storage unit (11'x25') where I park my Sprinter at night, I also sometimes use it as a "shop" space. Alas, I quickly learned that drawing anything more than ~10 amps will trip the breaker, and I need management to reset. Between that lack of power, and a longer term need for a generator on-site, I set out to buy a generator.
Without going into too many details, I ultimately chose a Honda EB5000, which delivers roughly 5000 watts running, with a surge capacity of 6500 watts for 10 seconds. While it does not have a "Pure Sine Wave" like the EU series, from what I've read it has a smooth enough power delivery that it doesn't seem to have any adverse affect on my tools. I've run my MT-55cc, P1cc, as well as most of my Festool tools on it, most of which have some sort of onboard electronics, and none of them seem the worse for wear.
Honda does make a EU6500 with a pure sine wave, but it is prohibitively expensive for my needs.
I like your idea of buying a EU2000 generator just for running your dust extractor, though I'd think it would be difficult to resist the urge to run additional tools on it.
It is expensive, but have you considered buying multiple EU2000 units and linking them? I almost went that route, but worried they couldn't supply enough power for a dust extractor AND some of my more power hungry bench top tools. My understanding is that, just as bad (if not worse) than dirty power, is running tools on an undersized generator.
All in all, I've been pretty happy with my EB5000. Yes, it's big and heavy (~200lbs+), but it's reasonably easy to get in and out of my van, it has more than enough power for one carpenter, and it seems to deliver clean enough power to run tools with onboard electronics. One tank of fuel (~5 gallons) will get you roughly 8 hours of run time.
I hope this helps!!
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Post by toomanytoys on Nov 21, 2014 8:12:32 GMT -5
Good to know the EB series has been fine with the tools, which makes sense since the 2000 has been fine for me. Admittedly I get over protective. And that was a good point about piggybacking two units together. That's true for the Honda 2000, 3000, and 7000 series as well. The EU6500is has been replaced by the EU7000is which now has fuel injection improving it's run time. One fact not known about the 6500 was that it was actually capable of higher output in the US as it outputted more watts in the European market, something I was able to do building a harness to maximize over what the factory panel would have you use. Not that anyone on this site will ever go to this extreme, but if you want to see how out of the box you can get the theater support people have adopted an interesting approach at www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/hdfilmstrip4lg.htmlThat site has more information about how the large Hondas generators work then any I've come across. |
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Post by jonathan on Nov 21, 2014 8:43:43 GMT -5
I agree with everyone else. Everything speaks in favor of a generator in my opinion.
The cordless vacs are nowhere near powerful enough and there's no way a battery powered vaccuum will have any kind of decent runtime.
Aside from the fact you'll likely need to invest in a whole new battery line? If there's no power you can't recharge the batteries either.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Nov 21, 2014 11:39:46 GMT -5
Decision has bring made. I'm going to go for the honda EG 5500. These are the new type of generator and over a more constant power supply and react instantly to any power surges. It seems to make most sense.
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. You are more likely to injure your back moving your generator than getting zapped by the power. 
