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Post by christoph on Apr 10, 2014 2:45:46 GMT -5
Learned an interesting fact which I didn't know with the current mafell vacs it doesn't matter if you purchase the standard or m class there is no difference in filters or bags. The only difference is a man in a white suit has put a sticker on saying complies to m class and you pay an extra 100 In the past there have been very minimal differences between the normal "L" and the "M" class Mafell/Starmix vacs. In Germany you need "M" class vacs as professional carpenter for sanding, as a painter etc. The only difference i know with the older Mafell/Starmix vac is, that the M-class vac makes a loud beeping-sound if the volume flow gets under a certain value. I own the new ISP-starmix (L-class) which does not make this sound but a red light flashes and it starts automatic filter-cleaning if the volume flow gets low. Due to the new technology i am not interrupted with my work (sanding etc). But if you have an older L-class Mafell/Starmix vac, i think the only indicator for low volume flow is the flashing red light (normally you don't recognize that while sanding etc) until you stop the vac, then its auto-cleaning its filter... With M-class you have the additional beeping sound (if you can hear this during work...). The Starmix "M" and "L"-class filters are the same, don't know which filters Mafell are using in the "Mafell" branded Starmix vac (they write something like "nano", could also only be marketing bla ) I think the M-certification costs some Money and Mafell/Starmix won't pay this alone ;-) In Germany you get 300€ cash back from your " employer's liability insurance association" (don't know if this is the right translation) if you buy a M-class Vac, so its no bad deal if it costs only 100€ more then a L-class vac. PS: The above said is not for Vacs without volume flow control like the festool L-class Vacs i know. They don't have any volume-flow sensor. With automatic filter cleaning these L-class vacs clean their filters in static time-intervals (like 30 secs etc). This may be different with the newer festool vacs but i don't know ;-)
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Apr 10, 2014 4:29:00 GMT -5
I have the L class mafell on mine when it gets full a whistle like sound is made that is not very loud if I'm running the saw etc I won't hear as slightly deaf in 1 ear I tend to watch the light. That's very good with the cash back. Companies in the uk would be to greedy for that
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Post by christoph on Apr 10, 2014 4:36:59 GMT -5
I have the L class mafell on mine when it gets full a whistle like sound is made that is not very loud if I'm running the saw etc I won't hear as slightly deaf in 1 ear I tend to watch the light. That's very good with the cash back. Companies in the uk would be to greedy for that Ok, didn't know that, so if your L-class Mafell vac (older Modell) makes that sound too, i don't see any difference here... Don't get me wrong, the 300€ cash back comes from that kind of occupational accident insurance, not from Mafell ;-) Think the insurances are trying to push M-class vacs cause there has been more and more perceptions about dust (even from wood, sanding etc) causing cancer...
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Apr 10, 2014 7:24:36 GMT -5
It's the current s25 model I have. I know mafell change things under the radar. Just curious when you are using m class vacs does the filters and bags need to be m class approved. I'm all for fast control. My problem is the people I work with don't seem interested in it. Here people's attitude is very different do it as cheap as possible and don't worry about long term health problems, especially the small companies. The multi national companies are different league on hs. It is changing but people here tend to think I'll do when I have to by law. Where my thinking is do before they make law and be at the front never caught out especially if you can see it happening.
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Post by christoph on Apr 10, 2014 14:01:52 GMT -5
It's the current s25 model I have. I know mafell change things under the radar. Just curious when you are using m class vacs does the filters and bags need to be m class approved. I'm all for fast control. My problem is the people I work with don't seem interested in it. Here people's attitude is very different do it as cheap as possible and don't worry about long term health problems, especially the small companies. The multi national companies are different league on hs. It is changing but people here tend to think I'll do when I have to by law. Where my thinking is do before they make law and be at the front never caught out especially if you can see it happening. Sorry, know the S25 is the current Mafell vac, i wrote "older" not "old" ;D (my english skills...). To get the M-class certificate A vac have to filter a certain amount of dust while the volume flow has to stay above a certain value. If it gets below, it has to warn the user or start the auto cleaning of the fiter. If a M-class vac like the Mafell achieves the M-class values only with a filter and without a bag thats enough and the filter gets the M-class certificate There is a class above the "M" in Germany, its the "H"-class which has to be used with asbestos. The H-class vacs from star mix uses other filters and special seals.
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jayd
New Member
Posts: 15
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Post by jayd on Apr 13, 2014 15:33:05 GMT -5
Well, where to start. I need a new vac, mostly for shop use, but on a rare occasion on site. I totally agree with good extraction, makes life a lot more bearable, but as you guys say, different countries have a different mentality. The UK really don't care, unless your working for the council's or the larger firms etc, whereas in Germany it's a must for any professional. Even if my shop is a catastrophe, dust everywhere, at least I do try and calm it down somewhat. Now I've been looking at the usual suspects, Festool, Protool, Mafell, Fein, Metabo, Bosch, but have no idea... L, M, H class, auto clean, bag or bagless, Christ! I need about 25Ltr with adjustable flow (the one I use at the moment does not have that feature) - extraction on my Fein multimaster is so good, it's turned into a limpet - and it would be nice to stack a box on top. Any advice, ideas, preferences would be most helpful. If not I will leave it on the floor and buy a broom, will be cheaper!!
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Apr 13, 2014 16:09:55 GMT -5
Here is a little extract from starmix download giving advice on the glass of dust control Dust classes Dust that is harmful to health is divided in to so -called dust classes. There are vacuum cleaners for each of these classes,which must meet special requirements. You can determine which types of dust belong in which classes from the relevant tables of materials. For a more precise definition of the material in the dust that you are dealing with,please contact the professional associations. Dust classes in accordance with IEC/EN60335-2-69,AnnexAA(extract) Dust class L M H H-Asbestos AGW-Werte* >1mg//m3 <1mg//m3 <1mg//m3 <1mg//m3 *AGW=Generalthresholdlimitvalues Penetration (max.) < 1 % (nurFiltermaterial) <0,1% (gesamtesSystem) <0,005% (gesamtesSystem) <0,005% (gesamtesSystem) Disposal-Lowdust Dustfree Dustfree Dust class „L“ (light): Dustsofthisclasshavegeneralthresholdlimitvaluesof>1mg/m3*.Withvacuumcleanersfordust class„L“,thefiltermaterialistested.Themaximumpenetrationvalueis<1%.Therearenospecial disposalregulations. Dust class „M“ (moderate): Dustsofthisclasshavegeneralthresholdlimitvaluesof>1mg/m3*.Vacuumcleanersofthisclass aretestedascompletemachines.Themaximumpenetrationvalueis<1%.Low-dustdisposalis required. Dust class „H“ (high): Thisdustclassincludesdustwithgeneralthresholdlimitvaluesof<1mg/m3 *,alldustthatiscarcinogenicanddustthatcontainspathogens.Vacuumcleanersofthisclassaretestedascomplete machines.Themaximumpenetrationvalueis<0.005%.Dust-freedisposal
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