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Post by sweetas on Nov 27, 2019 10:18:33 GMT -5
As the title suggests....
I'm looking for something for our small joinery shop. My tightness when it comes to spending money has got to come to an end at some point and I need one of the above.
Majority of the work will be for panel making using softwood and hardwoods for sign, 12mm and 18mm plywood carcassing along with using it to make birch ply furniture.
I had pretty much decided on the DDF40 until I saw this forum lol, that and the issues I have had with the UK Dealer. Tried to contact them via social media, email and website with no reply. Not sure I want to buy a possible faulty tool from a company with poor customer service, especially at this price point.
Anyway, that aside, which one do we think would be better? I like the idea of dowels because I'm tight and they are super cheap BUT will the accuracy needs of the machine give me grief when working with softwood or plywood which may not be 100% square or straight?
Have the QA issues been dealt with? I can pick up a 500 for £570 +vat which means a couple hundred worth of dominoes before I've hit the same price as the DDF40 BUT then it's cheaper in the long run.
Any thought will be greatly appreciated!! Thanks
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Nov 28, 2019 0:52:09 GMT -5
I just got the DDF40 and have not put it through its paces yet, but I bought it for more cabinet work - cases, shelf-pin holes, hardware, etc...
I have both Domino machines - they excel in building furniture. You have more wiggle room with the Dominos and the different settings. I think the DDF40 does not allow for wiggle room - so your joints need to be spot on.
A few members here have good experiences to share or do a search and you will find some useful threads to help you.
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Post by bicycleclip on Nov 28, 2019 13:39:28 GMT -5
You have more wiggle room with the Dominos and the different settings. I think the DDF40 does not allow for wiggle room - so your joints need to be spot on. You get wiggle room with the DDF40 by using the oversize bits, so rather than 8.0 mm you use 8.1 or 8.2. The disadvantages are additional outlay for the bits, and the ‘wiggle’ is just a fraction of a mm. So you still have to work very precisely. The advantages are that it’s easier to work precisely with the DDF40 because the fence, accessories and overall action is generally acknowledged to be better made and more reliable than the Domino. Also the wiggle from a DDF40 oversize bit is 360 degrees whereas with the Domino it is only lateral. I’ve heard plenty of people complain that the Domino is too precise. A good combo is one or the other with a biscuit jointer. |
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Nov 28, 2019 14:01:41 GMT -5
Thanks...had not considered the larger bits - now it makes sense why they offer them.
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Post by aas on Nov 28, 2019 16:01:18 GMT -5
The oversized bits are for oversized dowels, not for wiggle room - it would make no sense as the 'wiggle' would be in ALL directions, so alignment accuracy would equal zero. I might pick up a DDF at some point - I have the DD40P - it is an incredible and accurate machine, especially when used with the DD guide rail.
I picked up a Festool DF500 Set earlier this year, first used this week - it is pretty foolproof, and with the adjustment on mortice width, you have wiggle room - in one plane only - i.e you keep the accuracy in the plane from which you register the fence / machine.
Despite not liking 'walled gardens' - i.e. the Domino lock-in versus ubiquitous dowels - I would say go for the Festool DF500 for your requirements.
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Post by lincoln on Nov 28, 2019 16:43:15 GMT -5
Oversize bits are also for dowelling MDF, which is prone to splitting. One of the bigger board manufacturers down here (Australia) actually has a info sheet recommending using .1 oversize bits when drilling MDF - though I've never seen oversize bits until I came across the Mafell bits.
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Post by bicycleclip on Nov 28, 2019 16:46:10 GMT -5
aas I’ve got the DD40P too, and I bought the oversize bits so I could match corners perfectly with a little tap or wiggle. Others on this forum e.g. jalvis have used them for the same reason. I don’t know about oversize dowels, in fact I recently went through my dowel collection and they averaged slightly undersize when I measured with a vernier.
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Post by bicycleclip on Nov 28, 2019 16:48:01 GMT -5
Oversize bits are also for dowelling MDF, which is prone to splitting. One of the bigger board manufacturers down here (Australia) actually has a info sheet recommending using .1 oversize bits when drilling MDF - though I've never seen oversize bits until I came across the Mafell bits. Okay, that’s why I’ve never heard of this use, I generally only use birch ply. |
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Post by bicycleclip on Nov 28, 2019 16:52:27 GMT -5
I had pretty much decided on the DDF40 until I saw this forum lol, that and the issues I have had with the UK Dealer. Tried to contact them via social media, email and website with no reply. Not sure I want to buy a possible faulty tool from a company with poor customer service, especially at this price point. Which dealer was it BTW? I think NMA tools actively discourage approaches from the public because they’re effectively a reseller, but I had no problem with D&M tools in this country or Dictum in Germany. |
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Post by lincoln on Nov 28, 2019 17:06:33 GMT -5
Oversize bits are also for dowelling MDF, which is prone to splitting. One of the bigger board manufacturers down here (Australia) actually has a info sheet recommending using .1 oversize bits when drilling MDF - though I've never seen oversize bits until I came across the Mafell bits. Okay, that’s why I’ve never heard of this use, I generally only use birch ply. I really wish pre-finished Birch Ply was more of a 'thing' down here. 'Industry Standard', for built-in cabinet interiors, is 16mm white melamine MR particleboard. (I use 18mm thick for my 'after hours' jobs) |
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Post by sweetas on Nov 29, 2019 6:38:17 GMT -5
Wow, apologies guys, we have been really busy this week in the workshop and not had much of a chance to check the board out. It's awesome to see and active forum though!
It was NMA tools I contacted. Mafell DE told me to give them a shout. I won't bother with them anymore. I'm thinking of taking a trip down to D&M tools in Twickenham when I can but its a 4 hour round trip on a good day. I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and pick one or the other and just go from there as I've got another panel making job coming up.
Walled gardens stress me out a little, we live and work out in the sticks. If we run out on the weekend we can just go to the local hardware store 5 minutes away for more dowels, the dominoes are a 40 minute trip out of hours and I tend to work out of hours a lot, if we go that way I will just need to plan ahead I guess.
I love using Birch, I would hate to have to use 16m melamine faced board all day. Do you go through blades and bits pretty quick?
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mattj
Junior Member
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Post by mattj on Nov 29, 2019 11:32:37 GMT -5
I have no experience with the DDF40 but it sounds like the Domino would be a great choice for your work. If you're really that cheap, you can make Dominos yourself with a little scrap wood in less time than it would take to run to the store.
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Post by aas on Nov 29, 2019 14:07:42 GMT -5
I agree with mattj - make your own dominos if you don't want to go spendy.
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patr
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by patr on Nov 29, 2019 16:40:41 GMT -5
Sweetas,
I hope that Mafell have now sorted the early quality/component problems with the DDF40. I returned mine after two attempts to fix the fauty switch. I have both Domino machines and have never ever had a problem with either their accuracy or reliabiity. They are, in my opinion, superb bits of kit.
My Domino 500 was one of the first into the UK and I must admit spending that amount of money then did engage the wrath of my wife, but a demonstration at a Festool dealer in Germany clearly showed that even a numpty like me, armed with an HB pencil and a simplistic, yet joyful, approach to my own abiities, could join wood with amazing accuracy and in rapid time. I make my own Domino's as and when I need them.
The DDF40 does not suffer fools gladly and, hands up, that neatly describes me. It requires thought, has a myriad of attachments that require constant reference to, and is so accurate in the placement of the drilled holes that the slightest difference in the cut or surface preparation makes alignment difficult. There is no wriggle room.
The plastic parts and attachments did not inspire confidence in their longevity. The one that acts as the follow on guide for shelf pins is smaller than the drilled hole so a cumulative effect as you move down results in misaligned shelf holes. You can of course buy an optional guide rail at around £200 which makes an already expensive machine considerably more expensive.
The depth stop bends as you press it in and althought I have four Weetabix every morning for brekkies, I found it much more difficult to plunge than either of the Domino's. I suppose that there is a technique but I am buggered if I could master it. When the switch went tits up again I surrendered, engaged reverse gear and returned it.
But I do admit to being rather suprised at your experience of NMA. I have found them to be very professional, courteous and very quick to put a wrong right.
Get the Domino, its a cracker....or sell a kidney, rob a bank to buy the 'biscuits', and treat yourself to the amazing jumping angle grinder that is the Lamello Zeta P2. Now that is a beautifully engineered tool and I lust after one but would be sadly wasted on me and would truly make me a contender for the "All the clobber, still a nobber" Award.
I am sure that there are many delighted DDF40 owners but it did not impress me at all and it reinforced my opinion that Festool really did get the Domino right.
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Post by joshgraham on Nov 30, 2019 11:36:14 GMT -5
I have the df500 and two dd40p machines. I do a lot of wall paneling as a finish carpenter and the domino never gets used. The fence drift on the domino drives me nuts so I bought the woodpeckers kit to address this but I still don’t use it much. The doweler takes lots of practice but, once mastered it’s hard to beat. The domino must be used with a vacuum and I don’t always feel like dragging one around with me.
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