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Post by bicycleclip on Sept 11, 2017 13:39:51 GMT -5
Forgive me if this has been done to death elsewhere, but My reason for posting it here is that the comparison will be largely based on highend cordless (e.g Metabo LTX or Mafell) vs corded, rather than 'my corded is much better than this crappy cordless'.
I recently bought a used BST 650S on eBay for £300. Apart from needing a bit of lube on the wingbolts, it's perfect, and I'm putting in an order for the parallel bar. I would have originally gone for the BST 460 had I been given the choice, but the 650 actually looks and feels manageable anyway.
I've been looking for a drill to fit, and fortunately being in Europe there are loads with 43mm collars. I narrowed my choice down to a Metabo BE75 (high torque corded at 75nm) or a Metabo LTX with 5.5lihd batteries at 120nm.
I bought the latter, the LTX, mainly because it's basically equivalent/same as the Mafell A18 and therefore in keeping with the design intent of the BST. However I'm wondering if the corded would have been a better and cheaper choice.
My first project for this is using a 32mm auger to drill around 400mm into the endgrain of some redwood posts. I know that either is capable of doing this, why does every website talk about corded drills like they have some magic juice for heavy duty work?
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Post by huntsgemein on Sept 11, 2017 16:23:25 GMT -5
Corded drills are different than cordless. They simply have different characteristics, besides the obvious ones. Apart from anything else, there's the rather effortless, tireless stamina of better quality mains powered drills, plus their usually more powerful torque delivery which is ideal for large diameter boring.
When used in a drill stand/press that "lock on" button becomes advantageous, allowing the operator to more safely concentrate on steadying the workpiece & the plunge rather than "wasting" one hand on holding a trigger down &/or feathering the drill to the correct speed. Speeds are usually preselectable on better corded drills.
Specific to the BE75 drill you considered, that particular drill is uniquely capable of prodigious torque delivery. Despite being only a "mere" 750w (1 HP), it has a triple reduction gearbox, meaning that it is unrivalled in large hole boring capabilities. One reason why it has such an extra-long side handle in comparison to any other drill. It's small size & light weight belies it's rather extraordinary abilities at metal boring (16 mm+), holesawing (100 mm+), augers (50 mm+) & heavy duty stirring of larger quantities of mortars, plasters & surface finishes.
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Post by Eoj on Sept 11, 2017 18:17:45 GMT -5
"Magic juice" = line voltage ,cold weather and cordless batteries are not efficient for power delivery.
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Post by holmz on Sept 11, 2017 22:56:15 GMT -5
Well I picked up a small and large Kress in 230v. In the US there are other 110v drilles with a 43-mm flange.
I am expecting that one may need to woodpecker at the hole pulling it out occasionally... and not just push it all the way in, in one go.
If one is not in Florida or Adelaide, then the grid should be more dependable than a battery.
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Post by bicycleclip on Sept 12, 2017 2:41:55 GMT -5
Good call. The only thing that is concerning me about the BE75 is that the no-load speed is rather low, at 660 rpm. Compared to drill-presses and the Metabo LTX / Mafell A18, this is pretty sluggish. Not an issue for drilling wood with beefy auger bits, but not much good for small bits perhaps?
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Post by huntsgemein on Sept 12, 2017 4:30:03 GMT -5
It's a specialised small drill meant for large holes, stirring etc. It's natural home is in either a drill stand/press, carpentry site work for bolt-holes , drilling/driving lags into sleepers for landscaping, or an engineering site/workshop. As an addition to a quality cordless it's getting pretty close to a marriage made in heaven. Each has capabilities & strengths that the other lacks.
If you want to change the wheel on a mining truck, or maybe strip down a Leopard Tank then get the "Quick" version with the "x3" torque multiplier. Revs are reduced by a factor of 3, and torque multiplied to in excess of 300 nm! "Honey, did you just feel the earth move?"
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Post by bicycleclip on Sept 12, 2017 5:26:44 GMT -5
Hunstgemein great advice and insight.
Yep, the leopard tank needs a complete strip and clean every year, it would be less often if only my wife treated it with more care.
So, if you had the choice between the corded BE75, and the cordless LTX...
And this is just for work in either a BST drill stand, or occasionally a normal little drill stand for 'craft' projects...
And like me you're too stingy to buy both, and you've got a couple of Makita cordless drivers (but without 43mm collars) for doing general work...
.. which would you choose? Am I right in thinking it would be the BE75?
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Post by huntsgemein on Sept 12, 2017 5:57:41 GMT -5
For me, it would still be dependent on the type of work I'm doing.....
I personally wouldn't even consider using a cordless in a drill stand, but then my own version is a Metabo/Bosch "fixed" stand (made by Maxion), which has an column-mounted eccentric workpiece clamp. I can bore either clamped flats or rounds, or even swing the head assembly sideways to bore the edge of wide boards (eg. for mortise locks in doors) clamped to the side of the workbench. I like the idea of pre-setting the speed, using one hand to apply vertical pressure, keeping the other hand spare to steady the workpiece. Especially with solid steel, cast iron & the like, & even with small pilot holes I like to keep the speed down, using quality (expensive) cobalt steel drills & generous but judicious use of cutting lube. Slow & steady helps prevent the drill point wandering, running off centre and enhances precision (as much as that's possible with a domestic duty drill stand). I can get an effective "feel" through the stand's handle for how the bit is progressing, & can finely tune the pressure as required.
Even with such mundane duties as boring 32mm hinge holes for cupboard doors, the "free" trigger hand that would otherwise be required for a cordless drill enables one to concentrate more on carefully positioning the boreholes and accurately controlling depth. I also really, really like the high precision keyed chuck fitted to the BE75. The best keyless chucks are a godsend for general drilling duties (whereas shitty ones are worse than useless). But for extreme work such as large diameter reduced shank bits in hard metal, or even drilling a fine diameter grub screw hole in a small diameter round, the accuracy & concentricity of a well-made keyed chuck, & the grip on the shank provided from a triple-tightened (once in each keyhole) wins every time!
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Post by huntsgemein on Sept 12, 2017 6:02:30 GMT -5
Mind you, if I was to have only ONE drill, it would have to be a cordless. Those things are just so damned useful & versatile, you can always muddle through the difficult 1% of jobs that it performs less than satisfactorily.
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Post by holmz on Sept 12, 2017 15:36:42 GMT -5
... So, if you had the choice between the corded BE75, and the cordless LTX... And this is just for work in either a BST drill stand, or occasionally a normal little drill stand for 'craft' projects... And like me you're too stingy to buy both, and you've got a couple of Makita cordless drivers (but without 43mm collars) for doing general work... .. which would you choose? Am I right in thinking it would be the BE75? This is why I mentioned the Kress. There are also things like the Flex/Ryobi/etc that may have a 43-mm collar. If you already have Makita's and just need a collared drill, then do you need it cordless? or is corded OK?
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Post by bicycleclip on Sept 12, 2017 17:25:59 GMT -5
This is why I mentioned the Kress. There are also things like the Flex/Ryobi/etc that may have a 43-mm collar. If you already have Makita's and just need a collared drill, then do you need it cordless? or is corded OK? That's right, corded is fine. Kress looked really interesting.. www.kress-elektrik.de/Power-tools.71+M55282302d6a.0.html?&tx_commerce_pi1%5BcatUid%5D=32&tx_commerce_pi1%5BmDepth%5D=2&tx_commerce_pi1%5Bpath%5D=24%2C2%2C68At first I ignored it because I hadn't heard of it, so some selection bias going on. Then I looked it up, 1200 HTC has got tons of torque and the widest diameter wood bit rating I've seen on anything out there. However, it's hard to buy in the UK and costs well upwards of £400, so I've pulled the trigger figuratively on the Metabo BE75 but even then I wonder if I could have got away with using an old Bosch GSB 19 or 22 on ebay with a 20 +\- NM torque rating.
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Post by huntsgemein on Sept 12, 2017 22:29:24 GMT -5
Kress make a limited but pretty good range of tools. Some, their jiggy, grinders & cordless range for example are perhaps a trifle "eccentric" to be charitable, but the corded drills are excellent. However there's a huge question mark over their long-term viability and availability of parts since the company stated trading in receivership a year or two ago.
Some time ago Kress & Mafell had a joint partnership producing a mega-powerful (900w) dual action sander that made the Rotex look rather lightweight & puny in comparison. Unfortunately, some ongoing gear problems eventually contributed to its demise. By all means choose Kress if that's your fancy, but just be aware that parts availability into the future may well be difficult at best.
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Post by bicycleclip on Sept 13, 2017 4:08:14 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone for their advice and insight.
I did notice at the last minute that there is a UK market equivalent of the Makita 6302H that Timberwolf sell for the Mafell BST. But the UK version (DP4003) comes with a keyless chuck which was a minus point. At the UK price point (significantly dearer than the USA - almost twice the cost of the US model) I didn't want the cost and effort of replacing the chuck as well.
I've bought the Metabo BE75, which seems to have some advantages over the Makita. Folkestone Fixings here in the UK were doing a deal on the Metabo BE75 quick, with a Metaloc case and side-drill attachment, for £279.00 I'll post a couple of pictures of it in the BST and let you know how I get on.
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Post by holmz on Sept 13, 2017 5:34:15 GMT -5
Kress make a limited but pretty good range of tools. Some, their jiggy, grinders & cordless range for example are perhaps a trifle "eccentric" to be charitable, but the corded drills are excellent. However there's a huge question mark over their long-term viability and availability of parts since the company stated trading in receivership a year or two ago. Some time ago Kress & Mafell had a joint partnership producing a mega-powerful (900w) dual action sander that made the Rotex look rather lightweight & puny in comparison. Unfortunately, some ongoing gear problems eventually contributed to its demise. By all means choose Kress if that's your fancy, but just be aware that parts availability into the future may well be difficult at best. Yeah, it was 1/3the price of any similar thing here from memory. maybe the same as a corded flex? And the 90 degree bends from the a10m or a18m I though would fit... (Haven' tried it yet...)
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Post by yetihunter on Sept 21, 2017 2:28:50 GMT -5
Well I picked up a small and large Kress in 230v. In the US there are other 110v drilles with a 43-mm flange. I am expecting that one may need to woodpecker at the hole pulling it out occasionally... and not just push it all the way in, in one go. If one is not in Florida or Adelaide, then the grid should be more dependable than a battery. OMG, I lived in Orlando for a year. Internet was up and running about 25% of the time. Electric, a solid 60%-70%. :0
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