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Post by aas on Feb 7, 2020 13:27:20 GMT -5
Kraft, what exactly are you trying to achieve?.. a pre-score without the move to the left?
Do you know what depth this kicks in and out?.. i.e. pre score at 1mm, 2mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm... at some point it is no longer cutting to the left. Have you tried this out?
Maybe if you can find the point that the blade no longer moves to the left, it will still be shallow enough for a pre-score cut or even a backwards cut (don't want to do this too deep though).
To be honest, I don't have issues with the MT55's as they came out of the box - if it needs a better edge than that, I run a router down a rail to clean up.
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Post by kraftt on Feb 7, 2020 16:45:33 GMT -5
Yes I can just set the plunge gauge to 0 (for a 165 blade) and score ~1mm to lessen the visual annoyance.
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Post by reefvw on Feb 13, 2020 19:31:31 GMT -5
Ok time for some images after all that good advice, thank you guys (and girls) Perhaps it could give someone guidance as others gave me.
Cutting the splinter strip was done in backwards/reverse direction with a piece of "Swedish" melamine aka SAC sacremental surface with a flat top. Workflow: - Connecting the Bosch FSN WAN (angle guiderail Mafell F-WA) to a guiderail (on the wrong end, reverse side of angle ruler). - Clamped everything down - saw tightly connected (thumbscrews) to the ruler, but (obvious) movable - "anti" rubber spray around carton on side of ruler - speed 5 - Depth...thought of doing partial reverse cut and then forward through but it was such a shallow amount, did everything backwards - Plunge start in F-wa, backwards as far as goes onto other rail - Stop - flip rulers so start on longer and end on angle rail - plunge on already cut area of long rail - Reverse onto "angle" rail and cutting is finished
For the 2nd rails I connected them to the angle rail and started from there. swapped half way again and ended back on same F-WA.
Yesss the rail rubber gets everywhere..., vacumed out the saw inbetween (maybe too overcautious ) See result on pictures, Doing the Mafell F-160 was a bloody mess.....
btw but this might be for an other forum (Definitely worth some investigation) From the cuts on the SAC I found out that depths where different using the Bosch and Mafell rails...very strange, seemed up to ~0,4mm maybe....Is the Red rubber strip of the Mafell thicker...or are the "anti-slip" stips under the guiderail thicker than blue from bosch...? (I might of given less pressure, but recall there really was a difference. Also might of swapped around which ruler was "thicker" B or M....)...Would replacing the stip to other brand change things...."color" or also "batch" related....(All rulers were new.)
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Post by keylow on Feb 13, 2020 21:32:27 GMT -5
I don’t get the reason for the special process of trimming the splinter guard. The very first time you actually use the rail to make a cut the splinter guard is re-trimmed to the condition it would have been without going backwards etc.
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Post by kraftt on Feb 13, 2020 22:03:08 GMT -5
Most of what’s going on here is mfg. recommendation. The minimizing rubber particles flying everywhere and using extension rail to begin & end cut, for a true trim at ends, is appreciated later for clean up and accurately aligning pencil marks. Running saw backwards (for a scoring depth cut) tends not to pull up on the soft rubber as much as a forward cut and takes same amount of time unless you intend to only score half way through and then finish with a forward cut. I wasn’t thinking one day and quickly cut a replacement guard at almost full plunge, equalled ragged edge. I asked the MUF what best practices were and now we have feedback to pick & choose from.
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Post by kraftt on Feb 13, 2020 22:30:40 GMT -5
From the cuts on the SAC I found out that depths where different using the Bosch and Mafell rails...very strange, seemed up to ~0,4mm maybe....Is the Red rubber strip of the Mafell thicker...or are the "anti-slip" stips under the guiderail thicker than blue from bosch...? (I might of given less pressure, but recall there really was a difference. Also might of swapped around which ruler was "thicker" B or M....)...Would replacing the stip to other brand change things...."color" or also "batch" related....(All rulers were new.)
In the photo it 'looks' like the Bosch rail straddles the two sacrificial boards so that the anti slip/grip strip closest to the splinter guard isn't supported. If so that could have lowered the splinter guard rail side since splinter guard can deflect rather than only compress like the grip strip.
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Post by aas on Feb 13, 2020 22:37:12 GMT -5
I think if set correctly the MT55 has toe-in, so not sure going backwards makes any difference. If we work on the basis that the rubber will move a small amount, and the plunge depth is very shallow, the blade will be pulling the rubber towards it... I'll stick with what I do, forward cut, plunge using pre-score lever, into material... easy and works.
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Post by reefvw on Feb 14, 2020 7:01:26 GMT -5
From the cuts on the SAC I found out that depths where different using the Bosch and Mafell rails...very strange, seemed up to ~0,4mm maybe....Is the Red rubber strip of the Mafell thicker...or are the "anti-slip" stips under the guiderail thicker than blue from bosch...? (I might of given less pressure, but recall there really was a difference. Also might of swapped around which ruler was "thicker" B or M....)...Would replacing the stip to other brand change things...."color" or also "batch" related....(All rulers were new.)
In the photo it 'looks' like the Bosch rail straddles the two sacrificial boards so that the anti slip/grip strip closest to the splinter guard isn't supported. If so that could have lowered the splinter guard rail side since splinter guard can deflect rather than only compress like the grip strip. That's a good observation, I will have a loot at that whilst I moved the "sac" further under the (new to be cut) rail for a clean surface...There were 2 sac's because of the F-WA handle/arm that is under its rail and I could not get ruler fully under the whole surface. I'll have a look doing 2 cuts on different the different colors. Not that it matters much to me that its 0,4mm deeper or shallower, but would be nice to have a consistency.
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Post by reefvw on Feb 14, 2020 7:44:49 GMT -5
I don’t get the reason for the special process of trimming the splinter guard. The very first time you actually use the rail to make a cut the splinter guard is re-trimmed to the condition it would have been without going backwards etc. As Kraftt mentiones, to minimise ripping of the strip whilst cutting. Once its cut that does not occur that much (hopefully). But when strip is still connected, might pull on an uncut strip. Just following what I read on MUF.
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Post by kraftt on Feb 14, 2020 8:07:03 GMT -5
I think if set correctly the MT55 has toe-in, so not sure going backwards makes any difference. If we work on the basis that the rubber will move a small amount, and the plunge depth is very shallow, the blade will be pulling the rubber towards it... I'll stick with what I do, forward cut, plunge using pre-score lever, into material... easy and works. I’m guessing whomever originally suggested cutting / scoring backwards views the saw teeth as trapping the splinter guard between tooth and sac surface, i.e. more of a downstroke on tooth entry. So that the backwards trailing up-cut, even with camber, now only has to remove less material for less resistance or in the case of rubber include less deflection. I should add that at only a few mm depth of cut any camber is negligible vs the 0.15mm camber (festool - front to back of blade) which is set at full plunge. In the previous photos I posted all those cuts were done with a single slow forward cut. (new or newish clean blade + vac).
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Post by aas on Feb 14, 2020 15:25:33 GMT -5
I think if set correctly the MT55 has toe-in, so not sure going backwards makes any difference. If we work on the basis that the rubber will move a small amount, and the plunge depth is very shallow, the blade will be pulling the rubber towards it... I'll stick with what I do, forward cut, plunge using pre-score lever, into material... easy and works. I’m guessing whomever originally suggested cutting / scoring backwards views the saw teeth as trapping the splinter guard between tooth and sac surface, i.e. more of a downstroke on tooth entry. So that the backwards trailing up-cut, even with camber, now only has to remove less material for less resistance or in the case of rubber include less deflection. I should add that at only a few mm depth of cut any camber is negligible vs the 0.15mm camber (festool - front to back of blade) which is set at full plunge. In the previous photos I posted all those cuts were done with a single slow forward cut. (new or newish clean blade + vac). Sure, I get the theory, I just think it's over doing it a bit. The saw is supplied with a pre-score lever - there are no safety issues for a noob in pushing the saw forward. I'm not convinced all this convoluted way of cutting the splinter strip makes any difference.
No-one has mentioned what blade to use, for example. I would guess a 56 tooth TF would do a better job than a 28T rip blade; a new blade better than a used blade. But the reality is, as soon as you start using the saw, the splinter strip will start wearing and getting nicks in. It's a consumable, not a 'final' precision guide.
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Post by kraftt on Feb 14, 2020 20:49:21 GMT -5
So again, the only additive thing going on here is the option to block some of the gum rubber debris, to save a lot of time later cleaning up, and the choice of scoring backwards.
A trimming depth is recommended by the mfg so in my case the 165’s Bosch blades I use have me setting the plunge gauge rather than relying on the passive scoring lever as a stop.
Depending on the material surface, price and job someone may want a super clean edge and want to attempt to keep them that way for only cutting that one material. I know I keep one rail as a ‘beater’ and two in reference condition as much as possible. For some reason those gouges always end up right where I made a pencil mark and what other reference do we have to line up to that mark but the guard. That’s why we eventually replace them. On the beater I’ll often cut the guard with the blade that trims the most (12 tooth Tenryu) so that every other blade cuts away. On that rail it’s more important to me to have a straight edge than the .2mm, or less, that the rest of the blades cut away from the guard.
And really how much work/time are we talking about here to trim a guard even if you added an extra pass. This is the easy fast part compared to the installation.
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Post by keylow on Feb 14, 2020 21:25:22 GMT -5
So again, the only additive thing going on here is the option to block some of the gum rubber debris, to save a lot of time later cleaning up, and the choice of scoring backwards. A trimming depth is recommended by the mfg so in my case the 165’s Bosch blades I use have me setting the plunge gauge rather than relying on the passive scoring lever as a stop. Depending on the material surface, price and job someone may want a super clean edge and want to attempt to keep them that way for only cutting that one material. I know I keep one rail as a ‘beater’ and two in reference condition as much as possible. For some reason those gouges always end up right where I made a pencil mark and what other reference do we have to line up to that mark but the guard. That’s why we eventually replace them. On the beater I’ll often cut the guard with the blade that trims the most (12 tooth Tenryu) so that every other blade cuts away. On that rail it’s more important to me to have a straight edge than the .2mm, or less, that the rest of the blades cut away from the guard. And really how much work/time are we talking about here to trim a guard even if you added an extra pass. This is the easy fast part compared to the installation. On FT rails I stick a Post It note on the bottom of the splinter guard when the gouge is in an inconvenient place. It’s a pretty good replacement for a few cuts and from then on it’s just “better than nothing”. Looks like it would work on the Mafell strip.
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