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Post by jarbroen on Jan 10, 2020 12:24:38 GMT -5
Howdy! I'm a new member of the Mafell tool club. I've been really impressed with the quality and usability of the MT55(and P1CC!). I spent a few years getting familiar with the Festool line - had the TS55, TS75 and TSC55. Using those saws has given me an appreciation for the extra level the MT55 is taken to. One thing I need a little help with is how to preserve the splinter strip. I followed the steps to get the initial cut via free air - which now I'm reading tips about having it fully supported on a sacrificial piece. I actually had a really clean, square cut at first which made it awesome for lining up to my marks. After breaking down a few sheets of plywood I notice I still get red rubber thrown at some points. A couple times it was letting the saw up while still spinning and also when starting the saw and plunging to resume a cut. I've also noticed if I leave too much material unsupported at either end of the cut I will lose more rubber. I didn't notice the Festool strips getting chewed up as much. Other than me making an error now and then it stayed sharp for a long while. It could also be the fact that the Mafell red rubber is much easier to notice chunks missing than the almost clear strip on the Festool. My question is - what are the tips and tricks for keeping that splinter strip nice and neat for as long as possible? I know for some this might sound like much ado about nothing, but I appreciate the precision of the saw especially when the strip is in good shape. Now that mine is chewed up it makes it much more difficult to accurately line up to my marks. I spend a lot more time fiddling with it. Oh, and I do us the track clamps for every cut - and plan on ordering the Aerofix in the near future. I'll be ordering another strip - either blue or red - and want to keep it crisp. Thanks for reading and I really appreciate any feedback!
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Post by chippiegary on Jan 10, 2020 12:36:48 GMT -5
Welcome my friend 👍- is there any slop on the saw running on the rails “ have you adjusted the cams on the base so they run freely but don’t move side to side if that makes sense , you will really love using the mt 55 enjoy !
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Post by kraftt on Jan 10, 2020 14:16:36 GMT -5
I’m not sure if running the blade deeper than a tooth out the backside of material adds that much to blade flex but occasionally the blade will encounter a change in density in a section of hardwoods/softwoods, or you might be using too fast a feed rate for just a moment in sheet, and the blade flexes / gets drawn towards splinter guard for moment, and there goes the splinter guards clean edge. I feel the flatness of the cutting surface plays into guard edge getting chewed also. Ultra thin kerf blades could also contribute. Of course swapping blades in/out that have a wider kerf to plate ratio than original blades used to cut strip will re-trim the guard.
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Post by huntsgemein on Jan 10, 2020 17:33:29 GMT -5
Apart from reiterating the useful advice already presented, I'm only able to offer the suggestion that you exercise care in the transport & use of the guiderails, particularly by using a storage/transport bag.
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Post by kraftt on Jan 10, 2020 19:57:44 GMT -5
Slipped my mind - clamping the rail to material can take out one variable. And then even clamping material to sacrificial surface.
I'm satisfied with how the B/m rails grip but even when conditions don't really require clamps the material being cut and rail could stay mated while both migrate together over the sacrificial surface and that sac surface could possibly influence blade defection.
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Post by jarbroen on Jan 12, 2020 11:01:05 GMT -5
I do need to check the tightness to the rails again. I did check that on my first run with the saw, but haven't revisited. Right now I'm cutting 18mm Baltic Birch sheets which cuts almost like hardwood - good point on the feed rate. Sometimes I expect to push really fast through the material because of the strong motor and forget that I'm using a high tooth count blade on a hard plywood. I'm cutting with an MFT setup and clamp the piece I'm cutting to the table (unless I'm cutting a full sheet). It's no fun having a piece move while pushing the saw through. When I'm cutting less than a full sheet I throw a sacrificial piece of 1/4" plywood under the sheet I'm cutting and clamp both sheets to the table. I don't like chewing up the work surface. And I'm shop bound so the nice rails rest on a rack when I'm not using them. Speaking of the rails - 100x easier to join two 160 rails and ensure a straight cut! I'm super impressed with my new Mafell saws and rails. Thanks for the welcome!
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Post by aas on Jan 13, 2020 11:39:18 GMT -5
I didn't notice the Festool strips getting chewed up as much. ... it's normal, they're transparent vs Mafell red... you see the crumbs 'everywhere' with the Mafell splinter strips!
Blades flex. Bearing this in mind, the splinter strip will never remain perfect. I've found there is less chance of flex the deeper the saw is plunged through the material, that is to say, if you are just using the 'tip' of the blade (which I suspect you are a you are on an MFT), you have more chance of blade flex. The deeper the plunge, the longer the chord (that is to say the intersecting line of rail across the blade).
First trim I use the the pre-score lever on the saw; then I use that when cutting sheet goods too.
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Post by reefvw on Feb 5, 2020 10:30:48 GMT -5
Is it better to cut of the spinter strip in free air or with a sacrificial piece of wood underneight?
Cutting the strip for the first time: Should you use the pre-score setting on the saw or do a deeper run (where the saw moves that 0,1mm away/to the right). Doing so will the strip support materials better in future cuts (because cut off less than with prescore)? (or will the next time you use pre-score or plunge along the strip will it be cut of that 0,1 anyway....)
Maybe I might be thinking much too precise....If I read about wobbles it the above is neglible...ha!
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Post by kraftt on Feb 5, 2020 12:26:39 GMT -5
I don't think you are overthinking it. The Bosch manual does a good job of stating what the mfg recommends: LINK pages - 12 thru 13. Cut slowly. Yes they do recommend cutting atop a ¾" / 18mm support surface or thicker for rigidity against flexing. I add a ¼" / 7mm mdf sac surface sandwiched between track and support surface. Yes that built in minus -.1mm cut that happens regardless if you set scoring switch or only set depth to a few mm will be in effect. The saw base should be registered to another track at the start and finish of the trim/cut so that when you begin and finish both snugging cams are registered. Otherwise the S.G. might be less than precise at beginning and end of rail. Snug cams, secure rails, secure support surface if other than work bench. Others here at MUF have suggested scoring backwards to start. I have tried this and it works well, but I've also tried trimming without scoring backwards. It's also been recommended that you let a newly installed S.G. dry for a few hours or overnight before attempting the trim. Good advice. Red or Blue rubber debris will fly e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e regardless of how powerful your vacuum is. ( I prefer to pay the premium because the red S.G., for some reason, helps me see pencil marks better). Taping a piece of paper or cardboard at an angle so that it would mimic your hand blocking (don't ever use your hand) debris flying out the side helps with clean up later. Be careful not to lower the clear plastic sliding cover too low at the beginning of a trim if you are starting with a track whose splinter guard has already been trimmed... the sliding cover will drop lower than the new uncut S.G. on the next rail section and bump into it. Clean rubber off of saw blade between each new S.G. cut as it builds up quickly on the carbide teeth. mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/949/on-cutting-trimming-splinter-guard
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Post by reefvw on Feb 5, 2020 15:33:09 GMT -5
I don't think you are overthinking it. The Bosch manual does a good job of stating what the mfg recommends: LINK pages - 12 thru 13. Cut slowly. Yes they do recommend cutting atop a ¾" / 18mm support surface or thicker for rigidity against flexing. I add a ¼" / 7mm mdf sac surface sandwiched between track and support surface. Yes that built in minus -.1mm cut that happens regardless if you set scoring switch or only set depth to a few mm will be in effect. The saw base should be registered to another track at the start and finish of the trim/cut so that when you begin and finish both snugging cams are registered. Otherwise the S.G. might be less than precise at beginning and end of rail. Snug cams, secure rails, secure support surface if other than work bench. Others here at MUF have suggested scoring backwards to start. I have tried this and it works well, but I've also tried trimming without scoring backwards. It's also been recommended that you let a newly installed S.G. dry for a few hours or overnight before attempting the trim. Good advice. Red or Blue rubber debris will fly e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e regardless of how powerful your vacuum is. ( I prefer to pay the premium because the red S.G., for some reason, helps me see pencil marks better). Taping a piece of paper or cardboard at an angle so that it would mimic your hand blocking (don't ever use your hand) debris flying out the side helps with clean up later. Be careful not to lower the clear plastic sliding cover too low at the beginning of a trim if you are starting with a track whose splinter guard has already been trimmed... the sliding cover will drop lower than the new uncut S.G. on the next rail section and bump into it. Clean rubber off of saw blade between each new S.G. cut as it builds up quickly on the carbide teeth. mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/949/on-cutting-trimming-splinter-guardOh dear, I didn't see the other rails cutting thread (I thought we were cutting strips here ) at first. Thanks for the link. Also good to read that I'm not the only meticulous niggling enthusiast here!
And great tips, will do a papier/carton for the flying rubbers! Thanks for the pictures!
I didn't think to look at the Bosch manual...(yes did get the small paper of Bosch that they give with ruler (or some of them). Thank you for enlightening me, I'm now stoked to begin. Have the following guiderails to cut: FSN 1600 & 800 RA32, FSN WAN (and maybe a red one:F-160...but still in debate if shouldnt swap it to a 1100 or keep it).
Setup: 1 - Start on the FSN WAN (angle ruler) attached to the 800/1600 on the "back" side of the WAN (side that is normally sticking out). 2 - Plunge start will be done on the WAN surface 3 - make sure mt55cc sits snug on track, tight wheels
4 - motor speed (reading different things, minimal 3 or higher....higher better cleaner cut or faster>warmer...not good) 5 - Plunge the Mafell down 3 mm and reverse cut the WAN and continue over the FSN800 (I read some plunge 1mm down reverse and finish with a 3mm cut forward...why is that? Is one go backwards less clean, or too much material at once?) 6 - stop near end of the 800 and disconnect the FSN WAN from the one side of the 800 and connect to other side of the 800.....
7 - continue cutting the new strip from where stopped on the 800/1600 (ofcourse plunging on a already cut surface, not precisely where stopped) and finish on the WAN ( I cant clamp down the WAN further than around half way because the angle arm is connected underneath.....try to put it at an angle to maximize cut along WAN) Also, I think I will be cutting on a "SAC" (you said it again Kraftt haha, on a sacrificial cutting surface on the ground....Will it be a big problem? The MFT table might do the 800+WAN but not the 1600.... I will need to keep pressure on the guideraild to snug it.....
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Post by aas on Feb 5, 2020 16:06:21 GMT -5
Is it better to cut of the spinter strip in free air or with a sacrificial piece of wood underneight? Cutting the strip for the first time: Should you use the pre-score setting on the saw or do a deeper run (where the saw moves that 0,1mm away/to the right). Doing so will the strip support materials better in future cuts (because cut off less than with prescore)? (or will the next time you use pre-score or plunge along the strip will it be cut of that 0,1 anyway....) Maybe I might be thinking much too precise....If I read about wobbles it the above is neglible...ha! Anyone who's had a good look into this has never 'found' the mechanism that enables this shift of 0,1mm (which would have to be to the left, no?)
In any case, my way of thinking, 'if' the saw does move to the left in the pre-score setting (all it is in reality is a way to block the plunge to a few mm), at some point this setting will be used, and the splinter guard will be cut to this setting.
I have found the cleanest splinter strip cuts to be ON material using the pre-score setting. Use a 2nd rail and joiner to do each end.
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Post by kraftt on Feb 5, 2020 21:25:50 GMT -5
... I think I will be cutting on a "SAC" (you said it again Kraftt haha, on a sacrificial cutting surface on the ground....Will it be a big problem? The MFT table might do the 800+WAN but not the 1600.... I will need to keep pressure on the guideraild to snug it..... (Son of a gun, I did. Well it's too late now, the world is just going to have to conform to me so from now on it's officially "SAC")Those photos didn't show the work around I employed for joining 3 rails. The 25mm red baltic birch support surface (from now on officially known as "SUP") clamps to work bench but overhangs bench where start / stop rail extensions join. You can see I just snapped some scrap shims ("SSSS") and spaced them under next rail for level. I see someone just sent me a personal message suggesting "STFU" but I think I will stay with "SAC" just the same.
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Post by kraftt on Feb 6, 2020 10:46:24 GMT -5
Anyone who's had a good look into this has never 'found' the mechanism that enables this shift of 0,1mm (which would have to be to the left, no?)
In any case, my way of thinking, 'if' the saw does move to the left in the pre-score setting (all it is in reality is a way to block the plunge to a few mm), at some point this setting will be used, and the splinter guard will be cut to this setting. Oh I found it a long time ago, just never said anything. Been trying to figure out a way to mod it ever since so that it's not so aggressive on my saw (photo). *edit - … should clarify - the fix is actually simple but you have to disassemble the saw. So I’ve been trying to figure out a mod (also simple, in theory) that can restore the feature when/if I want it back without disassembly.I really like the passive scoring 'lever' feature, so that you don't have to reset the full plunge depth each time, but I'm not so thrilled about the active offset cut concept. It's always engaged until about 10mm no matter what you do and it's more like a 0.2mm offset on my saw.
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Post by aas on Feb 6, 2020 16:32:59 GMT -5
Do you get the same offset if you set the plunge depth to the same depth as using the lever for the first cut, then do your second cut by adjusting the plunge depth - i.e do a pre-score cut without using the lever..?
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Post by kraftt on Feb 6, 2020 20:46:43 GMT -5
Do you get the same offset if you set the plunge depth to the same depth as using the lever for the first cut, then do your second cut by adjusting the plunge depth - i.e do a pre-score cut without using the lever..? Yes, you have me thinking... the photo is a plunge only score I just did and then a plunge pass thru it that exceeds the 9~10mm -0.2mm score function and this plunge pass was started way before the score plunge. Would have erased it if I plunged deeper through it. (didn't use lever + 165mm blade + fwiw blade used for photo cuts 'away' from S.G.but that doesn't change anything here). Many variables I need to exclude like: Using 165 blades with score lever = perhaps too deep (don't think it's the issue but you never know). Should I put some or more camber back into set up to erase score (but there's no burning, nice true cuts as is). Perhaps using lever (160~162mm blade only) adds a slight amount of flex /twist torque from pressure that turns 0.2mm into 0.1mm? After last post I did take the saw apart again to measure exact amount of scoring built in and it is 0.2mm - not that the cut didn't already tell me that but I wanted to match the two up to see if they correspond and they do. 0.2mm for everyones saw, what you get at the blade may be a variable I've yet to appreciate. Or maybe I've forgotten something about process and got hung up on this. If I can't figure it out I'll simply adjust it with some light machining, you can't mess it up, you just can't go back to where your were before without replacing parts.
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