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Post by jsda77 on Sept 7, 2018 13:07:58 GMT -5
Hello all,
I'm happy to be a member of this forum. I'm trying to build up my tool collection again but I can not buy everything, so I need helps to make a better decision.
Which one is better choice between MT55 cc and KSS 60 cc for general woodworking?
I love KSS's easy repeatable cross cutting with accurate angle like a miter saw but MT 55 with angle guide also can do similar (not same) thing.
Do I misunderstand anything or any advices or suggestions?
Thank you.
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Post by erik on Sept 7, 2018 21:04:15 GMT -5
Hey, for general construction I would suggest a kss saw, for a dedicated track saw-the 55. As for the general kss saws, I have the 400 and 80, depending on what application you have these two cover most needs but if someone with a 60 weights in, I guessing they’ll tell you that the 60 is the sweet spot. Looks like a great saw.
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Post by jsda77 on Sept 11, 2018 15:05:18 GMT -5
Eric,
Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, I think I need to buy two of them eventually at some point.
Do you have any experiences with UK imported Mafell products?
In terms of price, UK retailers have many great deals and if I can use them (110V spec with universal plug or 230V spec with voltage converter, if 60Hz is OK) I want to try them.
Any thoughts?
Thank you.
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Post by holmz on Sept 11, 2018 17:59:49 GMT -5
I assume you are in North America then?
You could use a 220v Yankee male to 240v schumko (Eu) female cheater. (Basically an Eu extension cord with the male end replaced to 220v plug.) Or a 110-220vtransformer... And then use a 230v Eu flavour saw.
Basically don't waste you time with 110v. A transformer allows for all the 230v tools to be run, Mafell, Mirka and even FT.
Hence for general wood working, as in sheets for cabinets and more finish carpentry... then I would suggest considering the MT55... but then I have one, so it is a biased argument. And I am not a general fan of battery powered tools.
If you were using the thing like a carpenter, so doing rough framing or work under the sky, rather than under a roof, then a battery powered kss would be something to look at in my opionion.
I just use the MT55 for just about everything, but sometimes a jig saw or table saw. the 2 job back was short retaining walls out of pressure treated pine, and 4x4s. all was done with the mt55 and the 4x4s used a hand powered Japanese pull saw after the max 55 depth.
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Post by kraftt on Sept 11, 2018 19:23:36 GMT -5
In terms of price, UK retailers have many great deals and if I can use them (110V spec ...... It seems unlikely that mafell would want to or need to make their North American 120v 60Hz (labeled) version differently from the one they probably sell more of, the UK 110v 50Hz version, other than change the plug end.
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Post by erik on Sept 11, 2018 20:24:51 GMT -5
Hey, no problem. I do not have have any uk imports but a few EU imports to NA that I use in a shop wired for 220. I remember some lively debates about this “import to NA” scenario and I think a Yamaha generator was strongly suggested along with a higher end step down transformer for 220-110. I couldn’t pass up the deal either so I found the work around worth it.
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Post by holmz on Sept 12, 2018 0:29:34 GMT -5
If you are in a shop, then the MT55 may be better, and if you have 220v then you are pretty much set to go. It is then just finding one. Alternatively the fellows at Timberwolf are importing them into the US now... So times have changed from a few years back.
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orr
New Member
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Post by orr on Sept 12, 2018 1:43:38 GMT -5
I had the same question and went with the kss. I imported to the states from Germany to save money... But instead of saving money I spent all the savings investing in rails and extra blades.
I've regretted the decision a few times; like the day it shipped, when MafellUK showed a photo of the NEW 110v kss60 on their Instagram page. D'oh. Looking back I probably would have bought 110v for the convenience.. but I'm glad I didn't.
For the general residential carpentry I do the kss is both well suited and under utilized. My boss is pretty deep in the festool system so for most of my professional work my kss stays at home. I'll bring it occasionally for framing, or because I want to use it.. but for our two person work-flow a table saw and the kapex work pretty well. We use a ts55 when we need a track saw - yeah, I still want to buy the mt55.
On my own side jobs I love the kss. I've laid several hardwood floors and built two decks with just only the kss and a jigsaw. I've made massive melamine forms to cast concrete trough sinks and counters. The kss can rip a chip free long miter no problem; with the right blade. It can rip a straight line in hard old white oak barn beams at full depth no problem. You can hear the motor changing pitch to keep the blade speed constant.. but it doesn't struggle. It's times like that I'm glad I went for the 60 over the 400. I wanted the cuprex motor. It's also times like that I don't mind the inconvenience of wiring 220v outlets wherever I go. I haven't looked into the longevity of the 110v 60s .. but every 110v kapex I've known has burned up at least once.
It's a great all-around saw but I would definitely recommend using the right blade for the job. The standard blade is great.. for crosscutting. If you want to cut sheet goods and compare it to a track saw it needs the higher tooth count. With the ripping blade the kss cuts like a job site table saw.
The cons I've found are:
- it doesn't sit flat. On or off the kss track. It's not a huge deal, but sometimes I'm just not sure where to set it down. I'll often keep a stool next to me to set it on.
- the kss track isn't always straight forward; it can take creative thinking to make the right cut. Sort of like a single bevel miter saw .. you might need to cut a board upside down or backward and make your cut marks accordingly. It can miter left or right but it only cuts on the right side of the track.. sometimes you get creative to line up the splinter guard... and sometimes you just estimate where the right side of the blade will cut.
- it's heavy. Some days more than others. If I'm cutting on saw horses it helps to have somewhere safe and stable to put the saw. If I'm cutting on the ground I often grab and hold boards up with my left hand. Either way I usually mark a bunch of board and end up holding the saw for a long time before I put it down. I tried to use the ts55 off of the rails once. It was so weird. I use the 60 off the rails all the time. It's a great circular saw.
- the kss miter gauge stops can get in the way.. I really only notice this when working on a table. The stops protrude farther than 3/4" so when you're cutting 1x they can hang up on whatever might be below the board.
- when it's on tracks there is a little slop. It doesn't have an adjustment to correct this, just a groove in the base plate. I've thought about shimming it with something, but it's never seemed to matter. It might matter if you tried to build cabinets with just one saw.
I love the kss and I don't think it gets enough praise on here. It shouldn't replace everything; but it sure is useful.
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Post by holmz on Sept 12, 2018 1:56:35 GMT -5
I had the same question and went with the kss. I imported to the states from Germany to save money... ... I love the kss and I don't think it gets enough praise on here. It shouldn't replace everything; but it sure is useful. I suspect that your liking the KSS and my liking the MT55 signifies at least 2 things: 1) We both have bias 2) (more importantly) neither one is a bad choice, and both would work well in a lot situations.
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Post by jsda77 on Sept 12, 2018 10:08:08 GMT -5
Thank you all, guys.
Let me be clear. I can use 230V EU(or UK) Mafell tools with transformer and Hz is not critical. Am I right?
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Post by kraftt on Sept 12, 2018 10:47:50 GMT -5
I wonder if using Kapex motor issues, made by a company that’s no stranger to underpowered tools, as an example of 110v longevity is a cogent or not.
Sometimes the difference that is noticed between 240v versions & 110v has to do with house wiring / resistance. The 220/240 guys wiring in a temp plug are generally tapping power directly from the panel or at least a dedicated line. Whereas plugging into a residential 120v plug is a mixed bag. You could be sharing the load with other switched on devices pulling power on an often multi / poorly terminated line.
I’ve yet to find my 110v MT55 lacking though and I’ve been using it recently for dimensional lumber wet & dry to do blocking, benches, curbs, niches, trimming studs etc. in a bunch of baths in the same building only because it’s handy since I also need it set up in the adjoining bedrooms to cut doors and do basic closet built-ins. In fact with a 12 tooth blade for rough lumber the word lacking doesn’t really come to mind.
As to which saw to buy I think the answer is a moving target and will change job to job.
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orr
New Member
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Post by orr on Sept 12, 2018 11:15:10 GMT -5
Thank you all, guys. Let me be clear. I can use 230V EU(or UK) Mafell tools with transformer and Hz is not critical. Am I right? Right. The 50 --> 60 hz is not critical. However you aren't supposed to gofrom 60hz --> 50hz I wonder if using Kapex motor issues, made by a company that’s no stranger to underpowered tools, as an example of 110v longevity is a cogent or not. Sometimes the difference that is noticed between 240v versions & 110v has to do with house wiring / resistance. The 220/240 guys wiring in a temp plug are generally tapping power directly from the panel or at least a dedicated line. Whereas plugging into a residential 120v plug is a mixed bag. You could be sharing the load with other switched on devices pulling power on an often multi / poorly terminated line. Very true. Now that I think about it that way .. they all blew up while plugged into dust extractors (even though I'm pretty sure they draw more than the vacuums are rated for) and, like you said, who knows what else was on the circuit the vacuum/saw. Plus that's a different company altogether. Consider this a retraction. I agree, it's a moving target — and they're both great saws. Now you have more information and I bet the decision is just as hard. It was for me
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Post by holmz on Sept 12, 2018 15:19:54 GMT -5
Thank you all, guys. Let me be clear. I can use 230V EU(or UK) Mafell tools with transformer and Hz is not critical. Am I right? Correct... as it is a Universal motor, refers to being universal in frequency. Thank you all, guys. Let me be clear. I can use 230V EU(or UK) Mafell tools with transformer and Hz is not critical. Am I right? Right. The 50 --> 60 hz is not critical. However you aren't supposed to gofrom 60hz --> 50hz I wonder if using Kapex motor issues, made by a company that’s no stranger to underpowered tools, as an example of 110v longevity is a cogent or not. ... In my opinion... No. I have seen 50 year old tools in 110v that have longevity that seem like they may rival Dracula or Moses. FT seem more like a stranger to power tools generally. While the fanboys tend to LTS hearing it..., the majority of the line up has historically been rebadged from origionally Nilfish vacuums, to Holtzher belt sanders, to the big mixers. And they were quality tools, which only had Festo lipstick applied and FT then implicitly took credit for the whole design. It is mostly the stuff that they (FT) actually designed and made that is the problem, like the Kapex. This coupled with less experience with 110, seems like is is a cogent connection... which in my mind, can be likened to Mirka's initial 110v issues and I think others. So I doubt it is under/over powering, but more nuanced or maybe just not coating armatures? IMO, If one gets a 110v model, of a primarily 230v based design... then buying in country through the reputable warranty path seems more wise than getting a 110v U.K. Version. If one is trying to save coins in a grey market import, then I would be getting the old-DNA 230v version and avoiding U.K. Versions as a general rule.
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Post by kraftt on Sept 12, 2018 18:47:46 GMT -5
I'm too lazy to look it up right now but specifically regarding the MT55cc I thought I read the 230v motor was listed at a higher wattage than the N.A. 115 or UK 110v versions (?)
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Post by holmz on Sept 13, 2018 5:42:26 GMT -5
I'm too lazy to look it up right now but specifically regarding the MT55cc I thought I read the 230v motor was listed at a higher wattage than the N.A. 115 or UK 110v versions (?) If he already has 240v in the shop, or a transformer... then one can make a compelling argument that 230v the way to go... However i cannot not make a cogent argument for getting a UK 110v when a USA 110v is available. (Well maybe I could if I tried...) but having a North American importer is of some value.
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