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Post by bicycleclip on Sept 22, 2017 12:55:14 GMT -5
Has anyone with a Metabo / Mafell quick change chuck noticed a degree of play and wobble?
I've just received a Metabo BE- 75 Quick corded drill, with interchangeable chucks, and noticed that I can move the chuck up and down by a few mm.
From the end of a 450mm auger I can push, without much pressure, about 10mm of movement.
Is this the same in A18 and A10 drills? Should I send it back?
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Post by huntsgemein on Sept 22, 2017 16:29:21 GMT -5
Years ago I bought a Kango 240 hammer that had Fixtec interchangeable SDS & keyed chucks. It had too much concentric runout to use in a drill stand. So I bought Metabo's 1000w UHE 28 equivalent with an (albeit different style) 2 speed quick chuck system. Runout was worse still. Both of these drills were expensive, professional quality machines. Only "fixed" chucks seem suitable for truly precision work such as drilling small holes through cylindrical steel.
I think manufacturers need to build in tolerances to the chuck mounting surfaces to allow the chucks to be quickly & easily exchanged in site conditions, adverse conditions and in temperature extremes. Therefore these tolerances will always allow an element of runout. I must say I've not noticed any obvious lack of concentricity in my own BS 18 Bl Quick drill (using the same system as your BS 75) however, but there will by necessity be certain tolerances allowed between the chuck/s & mount to allow quick & easy exchange even when contaminated with dust or similar.
I suspect the only way to provide a truly tight, concentric fit is with a more conventional 1/2" x 20 tpi threaded mounting with left handed thread locking screw. In other words, the BS75E will always have a tighter, more concentric chuck alignment than the BS75 Quick version does.
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Post by holmz on Sept 22, 2017 19:39:11 GMT -5
Has anyone with a Metabo / Mafell quick change chuck noticed a degree of play and wobble? I've just received a Metabo BE- 75 Quick corded drill, with interchangeable chucks, and noticed that I can move the chuck up and down by a few mm. From the end of a 450mm auger I can push, without much pressure, about 10mm of movement. Is this the same in A18 and A10 drills? Should I send it back? So not concentric runout, but rather linear movement? |
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Post by huntsgemein on Sept 23, 2017 0:22:29 GMT -5
So just checked mine (BS18 LTX Bl QI) & found with an out of balance paint stirrer a little end-play, yet even in top gear flat maggot (2000 rpm+) it was, despite the assembly's lack of balance, just a little vibratory. Maybe slightly uncomfortably so. Meaning the bit of play, some 5-10mm @ the end was effectively counteracted by the innate concentricity of the chuck assembly despite the lack of balance in the rotary stirrer assembly.
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Post by aas on Sept 23, 2017 2:41:52 GMT -5
Yes it's the same in all the quick chucks - a little bit of movement (I have the A10M and Metabo A18M equivalent) Personally I find them slightly better than the Festool quick chuck - but we are not at the level of precision engineering here that it is a perfectly tight fit.
If I were to be be frequently using long bits like that, I would opt for a fixed chuck.
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Post by bicycleclip on Sept 23, 2017 4:38:54 GMT -5
All, that's a relief and a challenge then. The relief is that I've not been sold a dud, a faulty dril. Both Huntsgemein and aas report movement in the Metabo quick system, so I'll read it as normal.
In response to Holmz, I'm not well enough advanced in understanding drills. I think it's both? I've found a video on YouTube that reports on the BE-75 rundlauf, which I translate as concentricity. It shows a fair degree of movement:
I only noticed the issue when the drill was in a Mafell BST drill stand. When it was held in my hand, the auger bit was fine. When it was in the drill stand, but with an 'open' bit i.e. not placed in the BST 'iris' bit holder, I noticed a fair amount of oscilliation.
Holding the drill in my hand gives a degree of suspension and absorbtion of vibrations. When in a rigid stand, the vibrations of the motor transmit down into the chuck and bit.
In some ways and this validates the design of the Mafell BST. The 'iris' resolves this issue to the extent that movement is limited.
By buying the Metabo quick chuck, I felt that I was fulfilling the design intent, since your comments show there is not a practical difference between the Quick chucks on a Mafell A18 (badged or unbadged) and a BE-75 Quick.
I've got to figure out whether to it's going to cause me any problems in the future. Not with the BST, but I was setting up to use the same drill in a Wabeco stand. I'll have to carry out some tests, will post results here.
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Post by bicycleclip on Sept 23, 2017 5:20:03 GMT -5
By the way, I spoke with Makita UK about their corded, high torque equivalent to the BE-75.
They only distribute thr DP2003 in the UK which comes with a keyless chuck
Apparently if I bought this and swapped out the chuck form a keyed version, this would void the warranty!?! Even though they sell a keyed version in the US.
Instead, they told me I should be looking at the Makita ds4012. Apart from the D handle, this beast weighs about 2.8kg
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Post by aas on Sept 23, 2017 14:31:57 GMT -5
The Wabeco drill stand is fantastic. I'm assuming you won't be using a 450mm auger with it. It which case the movement with the quick chuck won't be an issue.
I do occasionally put the Metabo A18M equivalent in the Wabeco - mainly I use it with the Metabo BE 18 LTX 6 - 4000rpm, 18v, trigger lock - perfect for all small to medium drilling. I have the Wabeco built into a modular table that can either be left in the workshop or transforms to a full slide out bench from the back of the van - hence the battery drill. (A bit off topic but I don't often here talk of the Wabeco stands!)
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Post by bicycleclip on Sept 23, 2017 15:24:32 GMT -5
So the BE18 LTX is a cordless with a trigger lock? That's new on me. I tried the Metabo BE-75 again today with auger. This time did something different in the BST. I engaged the iris *whilst* the drill was running. This lead to a rock solid bushing, and no play at all after I stopped the drill.  . Yay, so that's that sorted. I'll just live with the rest. One other thing that I was slighttly perturbed by was that you can't put an assembled drill and BE-75 quick keyed chuck directly into the collar of the BST or drill stand. The Quick keyed chuck has a wide skirt of red plastic (where you pull to disengage it from the holder) and this doesn't fit into the collar. So you have to fix the drill into the top of the collar and then push the chuck on from underneath the collar. It's a bit fiddly. Does anyone have this problem with the keyless chuck? It looks narrower. The Wabeco stand is truly fantastic. I can't get over the quality of the parts. At the moment (they're having a sale) and their low prices seem almost ridiculous when you see the quality of what they are making. I bought one with the 750mm stand option (it's modular so you can choose the height, and type of base and clamps). www.wabeco-remscheid.de/ |
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Post by aas on Sept 23, 2017 16:27:57 GMT -5
Yes the BE 18 is a cordless with a trigger lock!.. it too had the red plastic skirt - a few seconds at 4000rpm with a file soon sorted that out!
Wish I'd got the 750mm stand - I went for 350mm reach, 500mm stand (and the milling base that I've never used!.. plus lots of other extras) - very well engineered - and very heavy too!
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Oct 4, 2017 10:08:34 GMT -5
A little late on this post, but I've owned the HILTI UD-16 corded drill for several years now and just love it. Granted it doesn't see a lot of use, but when it sees use it does not disappoint. Key points:
43mm collar
Variable speed with two gear ranges: 0-900, and I think 0-2500 (I don't remember exactly)
Generous 12' cord
Available with keyed or keyless chuck (I have keyed)
Available in 110v or 220v
Oodles of power, I just wish it had a brake like cordless drills.
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Post by matchesder on Mar 17, 2018 17:53:41 GMT -5
Edit: sorry, I replied to bicycleclip's post from Sept 23, 2017 10:38:54 GMT 1 I followed a link ( mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/post/17337 ) and did not notice that there are some answers afterwards. But here is my reply to it anyway: Röhm states 0.4 mm max Concentricity deviation für theyre EXTRA-RV 80 chucks, which I assume are used on the Metabo quick machines (and others). eshop.roehm.biz/media/attachment/file/d/c/dc0001483.pdfIn practice I find it to be much less than that. But since it's the spec. I would not worry about 0.3 mm espacially in combination with a quick change system that brings a little play with it. But I see you point. Particularly with higher rpm's you start to notice the tip of the bit is drawing crcles rather than rotating. That I think is due to the play in the quick system and the bearing of the shaft that hold's the chuck. Little imbalance in the bit and/or the chuck and centrifugal force pulls this heavy spot out --> bit starting to circle around. With my Quadrill in the drill stand I can move the tip of a drill bit a few millimeter. Still at lower rpm's it's just rorating. At full speed the tip draws the circles. Martin |
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Post by leeceltic on Apr 14, 2020 15:48:35 GMT -5
A battery powered drill driver is WAY more convenient than one that tied to a wall by a tangled mess of extension cord. Even the $100 variety from craftsman, dewalt, etc come with two batteries, a charger, and a carrying case. And at that price it’s probably going to be at least 14.4 volts, probably 18. Just get the cordless drill. I use mine more than any other tool in my house, and as a home owner of 5 years, I’ve not worn out either battery yet.
And as for the uppity remark about metric sockets, I beg to differ. We live in a world market and we’re the only ones backward enough to use “standard” measurements on our hardware. That futon you just bought from ikea? It’s gonna have metric hardware. The mounting bracket for your new plasma TV? Metric hardware. Doing any work on any car that’s not a chevy, ford, or chrysler? It’s gonna have metric hardware, yes, even the european models. How bout that neat bookshelf you got a pier 1, some assembly required? It was made in china, metric hardware and all. The list goes on… I have a tool chest full of both and my metric sockets get used 80% of the time. I can rarely think of an instance where I’ve needed 5/8″ instead of 10mm.
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. Yay, so that's that sorted. 
