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Post by mafelluser on Jun 11, 2017 9:35:47 GMT -5
In another thread (http://mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/post/16682/thread), a post prompted me to say something in this new thread that I've been meaning to say for quite some time:
Jun 11, 2017 0:40:21 GMT 1 reflector said: If you sent them an email, in the US you'd get an email back from Timberwolf Tools since apparently: "Your message, originally sent to Mafell AG, was forwarded to me since Mafell does not communicate directly with End-Users.....always through their Dealers."
Since that prompted me to finally put my thoughts down, I'll remark that Mafell make superb quality machines but I've been very disappointed with Mafell's attitude towards exchange of information (in both directions) with their customers.
It's paradoxical that a company can be so professional on the design and manufacturing side of their business, but fail their customers when it comes to serving their customers in other respects.
* Their English-speaking website often seems a year or more out of date (and not as informative as it could be, for those products that are listed)
* New products are seemingly only announced with grudging reluctance, leaving sincere customers to hunt for scraps of information in far-flung places around cyberspace.
* In order to register a purchased product for 3 yr warranty, one is expected to send either the included postal slip (which requires a customer to fill-in their entire home address, personal e-mail, private phone number, and indication of their profession - and post AS-IS, with zero privacy, so all and sundry can read all the details as it makes its way through the postal system, to Germany), OR to go to Mafell's registration website (www.mafell-garantie.de) and enter all that personal information on a NON-SECURE website!! How irresponsible to their customers; Mafell are a fraudster's dream target, and it's customers who stand to suffer the most. It seems Mafell don't care, but if they do care, then why aren't they doing more to improve the situation?
This is the 21st century and much of their international (and some domestic) income is entirely because of the internet, so they should be doing all they can to properly AND SAFELY communicate with customers, rather than dragging their heels with announcements, hiding behind dealer networks in relation to legitimate queries (perhaps it's a time-zone thing, limited only to the US market?), and making inadequate efforts to protect customer data.
If anyone is wondering why I didn't simply place the warranty slip into my own envelope and hand-write Mafell's address on it, the answer is that I have absolutely zero faith in Mafell taking my data security seriously (either as stored paperwork or entered into, and stored on, their computer system, digitally), once it reaches their premises.
So, I have a new MT55CC which I like the peformance of, but it does not have the 3 yr warranty, and if someone asks me if I recommend Mafell, as a company, Mafell will get a very mixed review from me. That kind of word-of-mouth information spreads exponentially amongst tradesmen. How very short-sighted and complacent of Mafell. In my opinion, caring more about their customers data security, and drastically improving their communication (in both directions) with them is something Mafell should be taking much more seriously, but if they want to bury their head in the sand, then that is not something I have the power to change, other than warning other tradesmen to be careful.
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Post by reflector on Jun 11, 2017 11:21:05 GMT -5
Might be a US thing, since Mafell barely has a presence in the US. I've read that they do respond to calls to the factory in Europe but that was something that involved a very old second hand Erika.
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Post by mafelluser on Jun 11, 2017 11:23:22 GMT -5
Maybe; maybe not.
In any case, your post was only a prod for something I'd already been intending to post, for some time, and I stand by it.
Cheers
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Post by reflector on Jun 11, 2017 11:28:28 GMT -5
I'll note I had to mail in a warranty thing in the US but we get a lame 1 year warranty for it here.
I always wondered why Mafell doesn't try to tap into the US (and Canadian) market any harder. The excuse (I've seen from people mentioning this...) of "but Americans are cheapskates that refuse to buy good tools" is bull given Festool makes a killing here in the US (Given heavy marketing, however). You effectively have two countries that speak a common (Sufficiently common with regional dialects and accents) language with lots of cultural similarities depending on the geographical region that are the economic #1 and #10 countries of the world.
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Post by henrun on Jun 11, 2017 11:31:49 GMT -5
I have had several dealings with Mafell customer service, with Mafells own representative that is. She does not always get back to me straight away but have always responded to questions.
On one occasion I did run into a slight dilemma which was never fully resolved but I think that they think I was in the wrong or possibly just making up a problem which isn't a "real problem".
It put a small dent in my confidence in the company QC but then again as a customer I am not entitled to a direct line to the production line at Mafell. However a service tech was supposed to get back to me on my findings but never did. I did actually have a missed call from Germany (!) but that was around eight thirty in the evening and I don't usually answer my work phone at that hour unless it is from a listed number.
The caller did not leave a message and I tried checking the number but got no hit. I have ordered other stuff from German vendors so I am not sure whether the caller was the Mafell rep or another person but I find it strange to call people that far outside of business hours.
Apart from that hickup I have had all my emails answered from Mafell Germany and my Swedish sales rep is great to deal with.
So, not perfect, but pretty good.
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Post by charley1968 on Jun 11, 2017 12:44:13 GMT -5
As strange as it sounds, but Mafell appears to be a very conservative/traditional company. You might have better luck sending a real letter than an e-mail. I suspect it's not arrogance but different business mores. I'd recommend you give them a call. By phone. They do have english-speaking folx in their service department. The whole internet-networking-thingy is not as big in Germany as in the US. When shopping in Germany, it's more or less expected you pay cash..
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Post by kraftt on Jun 11, 2017 13:22:18 GMT -5
I think charley1968 has got this right.
That video clip of the band they hired for Linga'17 tells you everything you need to know about them.
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Post by mafelluser on Jun 11, 2017 13:33:18 GMT -5
Conservative, perhaps, but if they're expecting to bank sales from around the world (which they absolutely, unarguably, are), then (in this Mafell customer's opinion) they should realise, quick-sharp, that that comes with a moral obligation to operate responsibly and efficiently on the same present-day playing field which they owe a huge chunk of those sales to.
I don't think I'm expecting too much.
Even if they were internet luddites (which would be unacceptable, considering how many sales they owe to the internet), it still wouldn't excuse the lack of basic consideration of customer data protection, on the postal side of things. How absurdly basic & fundamental is that?
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Post by reflector on Jun 11, 2017 13:48:37 GMT -5
When I was trying to order my holey rails from Germany, they insisted on me faxing my credit card to them instead email and told me that fax is more secure...
There is a certain way that things operate in Germany, much like how France doesn't have American hours for their stores. I've come to expect things to operate in specific ways in some countries. Not saying that they're the best practices.
There might be some kind of agreement between Timberwolf and Mafell we're not privy to which leads to that reply from Mafell.
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Post by kraftt on Jun 11, 2017 14:41:50 GMT -5
I think you should still fill out your warrantee if only because it’s to your advantage & available to you.
By importing I don’t get any warrantee, or support. Which is actually fine by me. Depends on what a warrantee is for and what the product is that makes them hit or miss. I would much prefer to effect repairs on my own than send it off - for this tool. But that’s me.
Whereas you have many authorized dealers in your region and can walk it in. You might be rather upset if the saw had a premature failure and they wouldn’t honor the warrantee for a technical reason.
I covet my privacy too, but I also have to accept that it’s an illusion.
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Post by mafelluser on Jun 11, 2017 15:06:54 GMT -5
I covet my privacy too, but I also have to accept that it’s an illusion. Yeah, I know what you mean. Heck, even a smart TV or cellphone can (potentially) massively compromise one's privacy (I'll refrain from elaborating, but people are very naive about what these devices are capable of). And then there's Amazon Echo, Apple Siri, ip-controlled home security devices, ip-controlled domestic device controllers, etc., etc. All of them are capable of very unpleasant things, which few people pause to consider before blithely allowing them into their homes. I'm not naive about such matters (especially in cyberspace), but still, one should do what one can, and not make it ridiculously easy for miscreants to get their hands on personal data, either by virtue of one's own careless actions (e.g. sending an uncovered postal slip with name, address, phone number, e-mail, & occupation clearly visible), or by handing over one's data to companies that do not appear to take sufficient care to protect the digital data they are soliciting from customers. As far as I'm aware, it's a legal requirement for companies in Europe to take serious measures to protect customers' data. I didn't mean for this thread to offend or upset anyone - I've toned-down my original post and title, but, fundamentally, it's nothing more or less than a simple outline of what I consider to be some serious shortcomings from a company that is very adept and capable in designing and manufacturing some superb products (I like their products very much indeed), but seems to be overlooking other important areas of the business. I've put my money where my mouth is, by having actually purchased hardware from this company, and by making the decision to forfeit my entitlement to an extra 2 yrs of warranty, purely because I was shocked at how badly customer privacy is being handled. My criticisms could be quite easily addressed, but only with a willingness on the part of the company to improve the situation.
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Post by henrun on Jun 11, 2017 15:34:01 GMT -5
I think in this digiglobal day and age most of us are used to snappy response times and swift replies and it might seem hard to fathom that some countries are lagging behind, even a modern tool manufacturer in Europe.
Mafell is not a giant in the industry and they are probably not a huge internet seller either. They have limited production capabilities, making batches of a few machines at a time to fill orders and many machines are made to order. They seem to sell what they produce but I think there is a certain limit to their expansion capabilities.
On the sales rep and customer department side there is definitely room for improvement. It might take some time since there is a tardiness built in to the old-school management style that is hard to shake for some companies.
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Post by bicycleclip on Jun 11, 2017 15:34:57 GMT -5
I'm from the UK but lived in Germany for 7 years, and I deal with German companies on a regular basis as a Quality Manager, which includes aligning their communications to English speaking markets. I've also dealt with German data protection requirements and a great deal of UK ones. My opinion for what it's worth is as follows: 1) Woodworkers are like gods in Germany. There's practically a cult around them. Some of them still go on medieval journeyman's journeys (e.g. look up wandergelsellen).
2) Mafell supply this group with the best quality tools, which make Mafell something akin to blacksmiths to the gods.
3) Next to German woodworkers we are snotfaced pretenders.
4) Mafell will let us buy their stuff, even though we are not gods, and for this we should be grateful
5) Mafell don't spend much on PR and practically all European companies are 5 years behind English speaking ones in terms of the internet, French websites are laughably bad, German websites are a bit better. Data protection is hit and miss in every country and company. Germany has much tighter privacy regulations than the UK.
6) Most people buying Mafell (or industrial equipment) will buy through their limited companies, which helps with anonymity
7) I'm not sure why you've directed your concerns regarding the general lack of infosec in the world at Mafell.
8) It's quite a modern conceit that a website and marketing 'user journey' should be indicative of the amount of thought that has gone into an end product.
9) My guess is that Mafell is busy looking after its important domestic market (aka the woodworking gods) and whilst they probably appreciate having an exterior revenue stream, they don't want to expand too quickly into it. From a quality perspective I completely applaud this.
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Post by reflector on Jun 11, 2017 16:52:30 GMT -5
Damnit Mafell, just focus on North America already! People pay insane amounts over pieces of machined and anodized aluminum things they call woodworking tools.
... I think I will note that this post only contains fractional sarcasm and does not warrant a full sarcasm tag.
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Post by holmz on Jun 12, 2017 3:20:47 GMT -5
They do not even have a distributor in Australia.
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