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Post by kraftt on Jun 15, 2017 16:29:16 GMT -5
So it looks like all you really need is the F-AFO and you can skip the F-AFD slide plate. I ordered some self adhesive conductive silicone heat sink sheet at slightly over .5mm thick for $2.50 and it works just as good. You really don't need to slide the F-AFD plate anyways. If it's about 500mm away from F-AFO it gives you all the grip you need, plus how often are you using Aerofix on shorter material. I didn't even stick the silicone sheet down to test. Instead I used the non-adhesive side (which has a gecko like grip on it's own) with the slick release film still on and it performed the same as slide plate. That's without building up the center too. You add some blu-tak, or similar, putty (removes easily / reusable forever) and lay sheet on top. This sheet was only 100mm across and to make it reach red grip beads I laid it at an angle and grip was as good as F-AFD. If you cut it into two pieces and 'stick' them on by joining the two pieces to fit across it must preform even better (?) Or you can just cut some stainless shim stock, stick it down, and shove a tiny bit of putty in to do the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------- *(edit) - lol, when you peel off the release layer it turns out there isn't any adhesive. (supposed to be). just the same silicone 'gecko' grip. anyways it's good to have if you do make a diy stainless f-afd plate because it turns out it's ideal for cutting a piece to lay under / between plate and lower part rail to fill gap. So you cut a piece of shim stock appox 65mm x 102.3mm - at either .008in/.2mm thick (easier to cut, work with but thinner than mafell uses) or .015in/.38mm (mafell), shove some easily removable blu-tak putty into rail channels, lay down either a few layers of tape to build up center gap (adhered tape to shim stock only) - or use a piece of the silicone sheet (which will grab with adhesive like grip to metal) to fill gap. This gives you aerofix capability with your existing tracks for only the purchase of an F-AFO (under 90 euro). The two small parts, diy plate & f-afo, will stow in your rail bag or MT box and allow for vertical surface cuts, & floor plunges where clamps usually won't work. And also allow for vacuum clamping when/if you need to cut materials on the ground at job-site too.
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Post by kraftt on Dec 28, 2017 21:03:53 GMT -5
To finish off my minimalist aerofix I needed the secondary hose from rail adapter to saw, I've noticed that those accessory hoses on generic upright vacuums are very flexible and extend & retract greatly. They're inexpensive as replacement parts to buy too. But a friend was throwing out their Hoover so I took the hose off of it and it works perfect. Only extends to 7 feet before pulling too taught but that's fine for free and testing. What amazes me is that you can hook up the main vac hose to the aerofix and leave the secondary off, without plugging up the secondary hook up, and rail suction doesn't suffer. Also crazy is how small a tube section the secondary vac line is piped through on the aerofix rail adapter yet the suction to saw is excellent if you hook up a hose to it. To adapt hose to aerofix I bought a pack of rubber table feet and drilled and routed them. They hold on extremely tight to aerofix and even though they are tapered, and the hose cuffs can only grab the widest diameter of the taper, the grip is great and articulates so hose cuff can angle and still hold great. Slipped a supple plumbing fitting over the other end of hose to mate to saw and everything goes on and comes off with just the right pressure.
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Post by kraftt on Dec 31, 2017 14:33:02 GMT -5
Well that was too easy. Started cleaning up my aerofix experiment pile this morning and before throwing the waste away thought I would try and make an F-AFD plate from the scrap. When you don’t care what something looks like or when you’re just messing with junk it tends to free you up from overthinking or aesthetics and you get it done. Letting the epoxy set up was the longest thing about making it. Works just as good as the stock F-AFD slide plate. So yeah, all you need for an aerofix sys is the F-AFO à la carte. The rest is under $35 which includes an expandable accessory hose from an upright vac. For the F-AFD slide plate you can use thinner shim stock than mafell uses and it doesn’t have to be same size either (easier to cut), some .0625 aluminum bar, some thick tape (your preference of type), some quick dry epoxy and/or VHB tape (heavy duty kind), some adhesive foam or just glue on a piece of plastic to fill the void. The tape is just to build areas up, the VHB tape was just a simple solution to mate two pieces of aluminum but they could have been glued - it just so happened that the thickness of the VHB gave the desired height, no need to use adhesive foam (though I like it and it passes rail detents) - you could stack up aluminum or glue on plastic etc, (just make a wider shim plate like the mafell), swipe on some mold release / grease etc. on to rail before you lay shim stock over the inserted aluminum pieces for epoxying. ------------------------------------------------------ edit / updated: I put it through some service and then purposely bent plate more than you ever would and got epoxy to start to separate. So I remade it gluing aluminum parts with polyurethane construction adhesive and this solves that issue. (fwiw - original epoxy was old). One thing I learned was that occasionally, when I lifted the rail under suction to reposition, unbeknown to me the diy plate had slid / been drawn all the way to the aerofix attachment by vacuum air flow. Mafell solves this by using a little tab that rubs against rail and then to a lesser degree the slot cut out in shim stock is drawn against rail too under vacuum. I solved the sliding issue for my diy plate by creasing a flange into it to rub against rail and to mess up / use airflow to pin it. It works and it no longer is moved by vac suction. Almost any other solution would work as long as it makes the plate less willing to slide. Positioning the plate is still very smooth and easy just by using one finger when rail is flipped over. Performance comparisons between oem and diy give a slight advantage to the diy plate showing that there's nothing critical or precision about making one that will work as well as the oem. i.e. there will be many ways to approach this.
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Post by kraftt on Sept 14, 2018 18:55:37 GMT -5
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Post by aas on Sept 15, 2018 14:46:07 GMT -5
I got an MT55 with AF1 for 599 euro... seems expensive
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Post by kraftt on Sept 15, 2018 14:53:16 GMT -5
Yeah, from your perspective I guess it does (lol). I'd like to hear more about 'that' deal.
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Post by aas on Sept 16, 2018 0:10:33 GMT -5
I picked it up in 2016 at my main Mafell dealer, just an offer that was online for a year or so. Currently 718€.
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Post by kraftt on Sept 16, 2018 7:47:50 GMT -5
Outside of package deals I don't see too much discounted mafell stuff. The US distributed F-AF1 is $425 (includes shipping) and a UK ebay F-AF1 is $400 (with shipping & fees). So a new F-AF1 for $197 half the price (does not included shipping) is a deal over here.
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Post by reefvw on Jan 13, 2020 20:44:07 GMT -5
After reading through this board, which is a rich source of information, a few minor questions/confirmations regarding connecting rails arise.
1 Aerofix system mounts/is transferable to all other rail sizes: yes
2 Guide rails can be connected to form a longer rail: yes. But: when 2 rails are connected is the joined rail (1600) solid enough with suction just on the first aerofix 1300?
3 With multiple rails connected, the suction part will only be on the "first" rail? Can one not slide the end plate "F-AFD" all the way to the end/last connected rails for suction on the complete length? Obviously where the rails connect there could be a very small gap, but if you join them practically flush is this the problem/reason why stated earlier the F-AFD sits before the connected rail and not at end of all?
4 Bonus (or shouldnt even ask...) To try to minimize rail purchases a Bosch ra32 holey rail would be practical for routing too, but upon discovery of the aerofix system the holes would be a problem (or make a great whistle concert). 4a Depending on answer of 3...if only the first rail has suction applied...a joined 1600 ra32 (holey) rail would not pose a problem, or am I overlooking something 4b Anyone put tape or something else over inside or outside (interference with sliding of saw?) of an 1600 ra32 holey rail and connected the aerofix system? (there could be an ingenious idea here....I've seen enough come by)
Hope I'm not asking too theoretical situation questions.
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Post by aas on Jan 13, 2020 21:21:41 GMT -5
1. Aerofix comes with the 1300 rail (only about 1000mm useable), and a top mount - the top mount can be used on any rail. The bottom mount is fixed on the 1300 rail and not transferable.
2. Yes solid enough - you can use a normal guide rail without any clamps!.. so obviously with an Aerofix on one end it is better. If you have poor plunge saw control (excessive lateral force for example), it may be best to put a clamp on the far end.
3. Suction on first rail only. If you need to be regularly doing long cuts, get a long rail and a pair of clamps. [Not understanding your last question... 'not at end of all?']
4. Can you play the recorder or flute?.. with a few spare fingers blocking off the holes, you can play some great tunes!.. just kidding, the sliding section under the Aerofix rail limits the suction to the first rail, so you can easily put Bosch RA32 rails on the end of the Aerofix.
I cut my Aerofix rail down to cut 800mm x 19mm panels, it is about 1100mm long now (don't have the exact measurement in my head), much easier to swing around, and of course I've still got lots of rails I can join on if I need longer!
I also made up a small aluminium profile to go behind the undermount section so I can adjust it to perfectly square, that way I can drop the rail onto a panel and cut knowing it is spot on 90deg.
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Post by kraftt on Jan 13, 2020 23:55:01 GMT -5
Though if you wanted to mate the F-AFO to the Bosch hole rail, to drill holes I imagine (or other), you could tape the hole channel over from underneath and this would still allow the pin to drop.
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Post by reefvw on Jan 14, 2020 9:10:45 GMT -5
1. Aerofix comes with the 1300 rail (only about 1000mm useable), and a top mount - the top mount can be used on any rail. The bottom mount is fixed on the 1300 rail and not transferable. 2. Yes solid enough - you can use a normal guide rail without any clamps!.. so obviously with an Aerofix on one end it is better. If you have poor plunge saw control (excessive lateral force for example), it may be best to put a clamp on the far end. 3. Suction on first rail only. If you need to be regularly doing long cuts, get a long rail and a pair of clamps. [Not understanding your last question... 'not at end of all?'] 4. Can you play the recorder or flute?.. with a few spare fingers blocking off the holes, you can play some great tunes!.. just kidding, the sliding section under the Aerofix rail limits the suction to the first rail, so you can easily put Bosch RA32 rails on the end of the Aerofix. I cut my Aerofix rail down to cut 800mm x 19mm panels, it is about 1100mm long now (don't have the exact measurement in my head), much easier to swing around, and of course I've still got lots of rails I can join on if I need longer! I also made up a small aluminium profile to go behind the undermount section so I can adjust it to perfectly square, that way I can drop the rail onto a panel and cut knowing it is spot on 90deg. Thank you making things clearer, a few good new insights (and laughs): 1 - So the bottom mount is fixed and cannot be removed for transport. So to use the top mount I'll need a 2nd rail. good point
3 - The F-AFO and F-AFD transfer to all rails 80,110,160,210(etc)... What I was questioning in #2 that has been clarified, could suction be on all rails if you put the F-AFD on the last connected rail....But there will probably be to much air loss trough the gap where rails connect. (So it would be wise to always use the longest ruler for suction and then joint smaller rails for a longer length.
4 - It would take a 5 man fingered crew to cover the 50? holes on a ra32, think I would call it "the Ra32 Quintet"...
If you have some pictures of the 90deg undermount profile I'd love to see that, sounds interesting......
Thanks for the long reply!
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Post by reefvw on Jan 14, 2020 9:14:41 GMT -5
Though if you wanted to mate the F-AFO to the Bosch hole rail, to drill holes I imagine (or other), you could tape the hole channel over from underneath and this would still allow the pin to drop. Perfect, exactly what I meant. Did you make this specific to answer my question or actually used it (this is a ra32 holey or just for example normal bosch rail?) curious how it holds. Much appreciate the effort setting it up for a picture!
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Post by kraftt on Jan 14, 2020 11:43:21 GMT -5
Pictured is not a ‘holy rail’ just a stock rail. From RA32 images I’ve always known holes are centered over channel shown taped in image above. From a lot of experimenting you’d be surprised at how much leakage you can have yet still get a good grip with F-AFO. Just understand that with the RA32 + F-AFO you wont be able to use that under mount plastic plate included in the Bosch OFA kit that always starts the holes off the correct vertical distance from edge. But if you only had RA32 rail to use with the F-AFO accessory and wanted to drill some holes, albeit quite a ways in from top or bottom of material, it’s something you could have in your bag of tricks. And again, if you only have RA32 rail to use with the F-AFO for a floor cutting or wall cutting situation, then the tape over the holes should do the trick in a pinch. (If it were a critical saw cut I would probably place the tape on the top side of the rail over holes and add another strip of tape again on the top side near the splinter guard to even out the saw base). In my ramblings earlier in this thread I’ve successfully used the F-AFO to cut material with the rail and F-AFO hanging way off the material to be cut (similar to aerofix F-AFU) by placing a same thickness piece of material under the overhanging track section & F-AFO (all supported by sac cutting surface) as long as sheet material is closely mated (two true edges).
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Post by aas on Jan 14, 2020 12:31:12 GMT -5
Thank you making things clearer, a few good new insights (and laughs): 1 - So the bottom mount is fixed and cannot be removed for transport. So to use the top mount I'll need a 2nd rail. good point
3 - The F-AFO and F-AFD transfer to all rails 80,110,160,210(etc)... What I was questioning in #2 that has been clarified, could suction be on all rails if you put the F-AFD on the last connected rail....But there will probably be to much air loss trough the gap where rails connect. (So it would be wise to always use the longest ruler for suction and then joint smaller rails for a longer length.
4 - It would take a 5 man fingered crew to cover the 50? holes on a ra32, think I would call it "the Ra32 Quintet"...
If you have some pictures of the 90deg undermount profile I'd love to see that, sounds interesting......
Thanks for the long reply!
1. Correct. 3. Never tried it. To be fair, I've never even tried the top mount!.. just my cut down standard Aerofix rail.
I did make up a Sys 1 T-loc style case which takes all my Mafell rails and accessories, and doubles up as a mobile workbench when put on two equal height stacks of Systainers - pretty cool, but haven't used it in a while. The Aerofix had a place in the lid.
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