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Post by reefvw on Jan 14, 2020 12:38:18 GMT -5
Pictured is not a ‘holy rail’ just a stock rail. From RA32 images I’ve always known holes are centered over channel shown taped in image above. From a lot of experimenting you’d be surprised at how much leakage you can have yet still get a good grip with F-AFO. Just understand that with the RA32 + F-AFO you wont be able to use that under mount plastic plate included in the Bosch OFA kit that always starts the holes off the correct vertical distance from edge. But if you only had RA32 rail to use with the F-AFO accessory and wanted to drill some holes, albeit quite a ways in from top or bottom of material, it’s something you could have in your bag of tricks. And again, if you only have RA32 rail to use with the F-AFO for a floor cutting or wall cutting situation, then the tape over the holes should do the trick in a pinch. (If it were a critical saw cut I would probably place the tape on the top side of the rail over holes and add another strip of tape again on the top side near the splinter guard to even out the saw base). In my ramblings earlier in this thread I’ve successfully used the F-AFO to cut material with the rail and F-AFO hanging way off the material to be cut (similar to aerofix F-AFU) by placing a same thickness piece of material under the overhanging track section & F-AFO (all supported by sac cutting surface) as long as sheet material is closely mated (two true edges). That is enough information to convince me that the 800 OFA set (800 rail, routing platter and hole start spacer) would fit into the aerofix system by just taping it. Great! less guiderails and more possibilities....(oh dear)
Will read that back about using the F-AFO with overhang on suction side and a piece of material covering the free suction overhang, very good idea (that works apparently)..... So if that works...then original Question 3 might also.... "Join 2 rails (tightly together) F-AFO on 1st rail and the F-AFD at end of 2nd rail. If you state even some leakage there is enough suction left, would that work?. It would make for a stiffer stuck total joined rails? (or have I misread a previous answer on this setup.)
PS Thank you for pointing out the ra32 position indicator (under rail) icm with tape Bosch has a OFA set consisting of
- 800 holey rail - Router platter - ra32 starting align block under the rails (and spring pin for on platter) - quick clamps which are not as good as mafell *(but mafell would not work icm with ra32 bottom aligner ra32, too long contact surface vs the short T. Guess you can make a custom T for the mafell clamps for that situation, enough around on forums. but this is getting off topic.)
The set is a steal vs getting things separate (thus for all the hypothetical "holey" questions and aerofix) I thought I had a good list of rails for all (plunge and routing) until discovered the aerofix and this forum....In the end, you probably end up with all the stuff...oh dear
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Post by kraftt on Jan 14, 2020 19:06:32 GMT -5
Probably not worth the read back, for myself I only saw the advantage of the Aerofix when used for vertical surface cuts and floor cuts. And by floor cuts I also mean cutting on a sac surface on the floor as well as cutting out flooring (repairs etc). That’s were my need & work around for starting the F-AFO off the material came from. When cutting on a table I’m happier tapping the rail into position and clamping vs using suction (but if you can’t clamp suction is the way to go). I wanted to see if I could get away with just buying the F-AFO (later bought the F-AFD too). Don’t know why I get like this, it just bothered me that the F-AFU was bonded to its own rail, I didn’t feel is was an elegant solution so I wasn’t interested - just me. Originally I believe the F-AFU was detachable but I guess they had leak issues trying to mate it and changed the design. But buying the whole kit is obviously the best way to go for anyone else.
If I read your last post correctly you asked if you could run both the F-AFU & the F-AFO from opposite ends for better overall length suction? No. They both attach at the the beginning of the cut end of rails.
btw - I was only addressing your original question about the holes and suction as a work around if you already (and only) had the RA32. I think applying tape all the time could get to be a bother. The benefit of all these great tools are the time/labor savings - ease of use.
I’ll yap about all these work arounds because sometimes we’re painted into a corner and just need to get it done with what we have at the moment. Or so rarely have the need for a feature or accessory that a cumbersome work around is more economical. (once in a while these workarounds pay off or become my preferred method).
Once you get the Aerofix there’s a short phase of testing on different surfaces, testing it’s control when two rails are joined, vertical surfaces, different vacuums etc. to form your own opinion and trust with it. That’s all I would base anything off of.
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Post by reefvw on Jan 15, 2020 12:15:34 GMT -5
Probably not worth the read back, for myself I only saw the advantage of the Aerofix when used for vertical surface cuts and floor cuts. And by floor cuts I also mean cutting on a sac surface on the floor as well as cutting out flooring (repairs etc). That’s were my need & work around for starting the F-AFO off the material came from. When cutting on a table I’m happier tapping the rail into position and clamping vs using suction (but if you can’t clamp suction is the way to go). I wanted to see if I could get away with just buying the F-AFO (later bought the F-AFD too). Don’t know why I get like this, it just bothered me that the F-AFU was bonded to its own rail, I didn’t feel is was an elegant solution so I wasn’t interested - just me. Originally I believe the F-AFU was detachable but I guess they had leak issues trying to mate it and changed the design. But buying the whole kit is obviously the best way to go for anyone else. If I read your last post correctly you asked if you could run both the F-AFU & the F-AFO from opposite ends for better overall length suction? No. They both attach at the the beginning of the cut end of rails. btw - I was only addressing your original question about the holes and suction as a work around if you already (and only) had the RA32. I think applying tape all the time could get to be a bother. The benefit of all these great tools are the time/labor savings - ease of use. I’ll yap about all these work arounds because sometimes we’re painted into a corner and just need to get it done with what we have at the moment. Or so rarely have the need for a feature or accessory that a cumbersome work around is more economical. (once in a while these workarounds pay off or become my preferred method). Once you get the Aerofix there’s a short phase of testing on different surfaces, testing it’s control when two rails are joined, vertical surfaces, different vacuums etc. to form your own opinion and trust with it. That’s all I would base anything off of. Feel ashamed, but what is a "SAC surface"?
Adapters:
The aerofix comes as a set of all adapters here in Netherlands, so no choice stress.
ra32: Yes not practical, but the holes would only incidentally be used. Its a quite complicated hypotherical workaround, better just get a holey rail when needed.
2 rails:
I didnt mean the AFO and AFU together, but connecting 2 rails with:
- 1st rail beginning: (like normal), you connect the F-AFU (underneight) or F-AFO (over) (where the hoses connect)
- Then on the end of the "connected 2nd rail" you slide the F-AFD in the track.
Thus there should be suction over both rails (and some leakage where the 2 rails connect together.
Thanks for the advice. Proof will be in the pudding!
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Post by kraftt on Jan 15, 2020 19:33:57 GMT -5
I think you’ll find there’s a trade off between suction grip /loss and the distance, past a certain point, that you slide the F-AFD farther away from F-AFU/AFO. A hypothetical of two very short rails joined so that the F-AFD distance is still within the ideal range - the poor air seal between the two rails (where they butt together) is most likely too much for the Aerofix to overcome.
Sac surface (sorry, nobody says sac surface) = Sacrificial cutting surface. My brilliant plan of saving a few key strokes has cost me so many more - the horror.
fwiw - you can order the F-AFO / AFD separately (as replacements). But then you don’t get that great hose etc.
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Post by aas on Jan 16, 2020 13:44:31 GMT -5
fwiw - you can order the F-AFO / AFD separately (as replacements). But then you don’t get that great hose etc. but you can order the hose separately too - and the long version that is even better!
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Post by kraftt on Jan 16, 2020 18:12:39 GMT -5
fwiw - you can order the F-AFO / AFD separately (as replacements). But then you don’t get that great hose etc. but you can order the hose separately too - and the long version that is even better! Great point. (You're the one who hipped me to using these long floppy hoses for most cutting). Easy transport & storage too.
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Post by bicycleclip on Jan 17, 2020 17:16:01 GMT -5
but you can order the hose separately too - and the long version that is even better! Great point. (You're the one who hipped me to using these long floppy hoses for most cutting). Easy transport & storage too. So far I’ve not found an adapter that fits one of the floppy hoses to the bayonet fitting on a Mafell/starmix vac. If I could I would jump to it. I think vacuum adapters must be a personal blind spot, because I keep ordering what I think looks right on amazon or ebay and end up with stuff that doesn’t fit. Not just for this, but for other hose related stuff too.
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Post by kraftt on Jan 17, 2020 19:28:28 GMT -5
So far I’ve not found an adapter that fits one of the floppy hoses to the bayonet fitting on a Mafell/starmix vac. If I could I would jump to it. I think vacuum adapters must be a personal blind spot, because I keep ordering what I think looks right on amazon or ebay and end up with stuff that doesn’t fit. Not just for this, but for other hose related stuff too. It's a constant source of amazement to me. Lately a kind of mentally ill chuckle has started to emerge every time I discover that yet another adapter or extension is purposely made a slightly larger or small diameter. I have a huge pile where nothing fits the other yet is within a mm of the other. As for the floppy hose, unless someone has a better solution, I wonder if those Mirka 2-½" rubber cone ends could be adapted. LINKLINK
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Post by aas on Jan 18, 2020 2:12:09 GMT -5
... chuckle - I don't know, I get very annoyed. FFS, it's 2020, and I know if I buy a new mains tool, the plug will fit in the wall socket, and I'll then waste time trying to find what hose and adapter combination will fit for the dust collection - just to find out it falls out as soon as I use the tool! For the flexi hose, it fits between the saw and rail, so no problem. If I want to add it to a Starmix, I have found some 40mm waste pipe of decent quality (so thin walled) that I have cut down to 100mm approx., to make up joining tubes. For other cordless tools, Triton sell some stepped adapters, US version and EU version, the latter works with the Starmix/Mafell/Festool hoses - cheap and easy to be siliconed onto the tool - then a normal hose works.
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Post by aas on Jan 18, 2020 2:20:34 GMT -5
I wonder if those Mirka 2-½" rubber cone ends could be adapted. ...with difficulty.
The Mafell flexi hose is pretty standard dimension. I have one with an old style Festool end, another with a Starmix stepped end, 3rd is stock Mafell.
For fitting it straight to the vac, (not sure why you'd want to?), Starmix do a standard hose (27mm I think) - I have a red one. You'd need to remove the hose from the fitting, fit the flexi, and then maybe some large heatshrink to really hold it in place. Failing that, the standard Festool push in hose on a Midi fits straight into a Starmix, just without the bayonet to hold it, it's a good fit though - get hold of one of these ends in straight fitting (they supply one with the CT-VA)
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Post by kraftt on Jan 18, 2020 13:55:06 GMT -5
You guys got me thinking and I remembered once visiting the Starmix accessories page and making note of some parts others mfg.s didn't offer. Curious if they sold that bayonet fitting separately I see one for 49mm hose - 529752. Perhaps it could be adhered on as aas suggests? You would think that the bayonet size is the same for most models, with only the hose diameter opening changing (?) fwiw - also see they sell a ‘Y’ bayonet connector too - 425689.
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Post by kraftt on Jan 21, 2020 19:34:24 GMT -5
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Post by aas on Jan 21, 2020 21:33:55 GMT -5
I saw that on the FOG, looks interesting. I'd like to use vacuuum for some clamping so this may be a good add on to the setup I don't yet have!
Nice to see a proper saw riding that rail! (and an Incra hanging off the MFT!)
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Post by kraftt on Jan 26, 2020 21:01:30 GMT -5
Just a follow up to the posts above about mating the Aerofix flex hose to a Starmix bayonet: I missed the one below - instead of 49mm, this is only 35mm and rotates. Prob much easier to adapt.
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Post by aas on Jan 27, 2020 14:02:29 GMT -5
I'm probably missing something here, but why is there a need to have a flexi hose 'from' the vac 'to' the rail?
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