|
|
Post by huntsgemein on Sept 25, 2017 0:24:55 GMT -5
It looks like the mains version of the KSS50 is available in either a carton or sarcophagus. Great, if you want one! Yet both versions of the cordless model (with or W/O batteries & charger) are only available in the monster steel case. Bugger! The extra weight & volumetric measurement of the useless steel trunk means postage from Germany to Tasmania is going to be BS expensive. I'll end up paying through the nose for all that extra unused air & kilograms of useless steel!
I understand that the cordless saw, mainly due to the battery mounting, will be longer than the mains version, but the greatest overall length is obviously the x-cut rail, which is common to all models & variants. So why not offer the cordless (or even just the "pure") version in the same or similar cardboard box too? There's no operational reason why it can't be done, so WTF Mafell?
All that unnecessary expense (purchase & postage of said useless sarcophagus), I'm guessing will be in the order of $300-400 odd, for case & postage really, really hurts.
Just when I'd convinced myself that the "50" is the way to go. I'd even talked my son in law into buying my Metabo rail Saw with bag, rails, joiners & about 10 spare blades! Even after factoring in the sale of the old saw package, & without buying any extra batteries, charger/s etc. it's still going to be about $1500 odd to fully change over! Despite its manifest virtues, I think it might just be a wee bit beyond my fiscal means.
|
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Sept 26, 2017 0:33:35 GMT -5
Nice job. I'm going to need to do something like that. However, I need the box to be rain resistant. Believe it or not the systainers are rain resistant. I like your idea, but the holes for the systainer could pose a water problem for my situation. But you got my wheels turning anyway. Pun intended. Yes, I considered several options but came to the conclusion it would have to rain pretty hard for water to enter the small holes on the sides. The bungy cord seals it up pretty good and has a knot on the other side pressing on the hole. If it were to rain that hard I would neither work nor leave gear out in the open. But of course I would prefer a good water seal. Holes on top is a no-no. I do have another solution in the works: a piece of alu extrusion for the rail to slide in - locked by a bungy on the extrusion. Pieces are cut to length but the bungy solution worked so well I haven't taken it further. I need to drill holes in the extrusion and on the box as well. |
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Sept 26, 2017 0:49:03 GMT -5
huntsgemein: that is exorbitantly over the top expensive... After a full day in use there are a few initial thoughts: Weight is no concern. I would not like it heavier but in use it is fine. Ripping two 12mm plywood sheets in one go with the 32 tooth blade was pretty slow going. Honestly not much better than the KSS40. Ripping one plywood was easy. For ripping 26mm softwood I switched to the 24 tooth blade and ripped 38 metres of softwood, plus 5 metres of plywood on one battery charge. That and a dozen 160mm cross cuts in 26mm. If the battery was fully charged I don't know, it showed four bars though. Good? Bad? Average? I don't know - I have nothing to compare with. I could rip at a steady pace - faster was not necessary. Probably on par with feeding through an on site table saw. Certainly fast enough. Plunge action I am not so sure on yet - it is a little too easy to plunge - meaning there is no friction when lever is loosened so it would take two hands to control the plunge depth and lever leaving little control to managing the rest. If I have time I can try cutting out a square in ply but I feel the KSS40 does this better - being easier to micro manage.  No kick backs at any point. There was some stress in some of the wood and the saw would just beep and cease if stressed. After switching battery the 19m2 of flooring was done on the second battery. Crosscuts were a breeze and being a lazy boy I did not switch back to the 32 tooth blade but cut the floor upside down with the 24 tooth blade after testing on a piece of scrap. This yielded a very clean and sharp edge on the visible side and some minor fray on the cut side. Cutting was swift and effortless. Unfortunately the Dustbag refused to stay put and continued to take a nose dive so I did all cuts out in the open with no Dustbag. My rubber adapter had been cut down before so it is a little short I guess. Will shop for a better version this morning at the one store that has a good sortiment of adapters. This design fault did actually irritate me as it means I will have to do a lot more clean up today on site.  |
|
|
|
Post by calidecks on Sept 26, 2017 1:14:32 GMT -5
I use my MT55cc on every job, so I can just carry the 50 track in the mt55cc track bag.
|
|
|
|
Post by huntsgemein on Sept 26, 2017 2:57:27 GMT -5
Henrik: sad but true. Mafell don't give those steel trunks away. The price difference between cardboard & steel with the mains KSS 50 CC (the only option that has a choice of container) is about Euro 130-135. Airmail postage of that much volume of air & 5kg odd of steel from its homeland to Tas. will be somewhere in the order of Euro 150. When one adds an additional 10% local Goods & Services Tax on top, that translates to somewhere north of AU $500!
Irrespective of how good the Saw is, or just how useful I might find it, this additional expense simply can't be personally justifiable. As a total package, I'm looking at around $2200: $1600 odd for the "pure" (bare) saw as currently offered in its bloody coffin, and about $600 for 2 Bosch rails, clamps, joiner & bag. Unless Mafell reconsider delivery in cardboard there's just no possible way I can afford that sort of money.
|
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Sept 26, 2017 11:49:57 GMT -5
I hear you, I'd much rather have paid less and gotten a cardboard box. It is simply way too much when all things are tallied up. On a small but good note the KSS50 continued the winning streak - one small gripe is that for some reason the rubber lip was off on my unit - the blade cuts over one mm outside the lip. Will have to change and resaw the lip. I do have spare rubber from before but my unit came with a cut lip that was not true to the blade position. I did find a solid locking adapter for the saw. This one stays put and I can even lift the machine by gripping it, the hold is that strong. It is still not too hard to pull off the Dustbag and on the machine end it has a groove which slides over the machine end rim so it sits sort of permanently attached. Good thing is that I can remove the Dustbag and slide a vac hose right into the adapter. Though I would much rather have a working solution from the get go - at least this works well. Dustbag has stayed put all day long, been emptied three times and put back on with no effort - like it should have been from the start. I did bring a cheap dustbag from an old Rage metalsaw I never use and to be honest it is both lighter, has a zipper and attaches via a spring loaded metal clip so I am thinking of putting the Mafell Dustbag on my Festool Planer and go for the Rage Dustbag. When ripping the Dustbag doesn't catch much dust to be honest - it is still a messy affair. Also tried plunge action and it was "ok" in a pinch but far from the plunge action on the MT55cc. A preset plunge works so much better than fiddling down to a depth setting. Overall still very pleased with the saw and plan on ordering a parallell fence for it and maybe a 16 tooth blade after all - ripping was not the strongest point of the saw so I am sure the 16 tooth blade will ease it up a bit. Might spring for the 770 rail as it would take care of a lot of general cross cutting and - well - might as well go for broke on the set up.   |
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Sept 26, 2017 11:53:41 GMT -5
I use my MT55cc on every job, so I can just carry the 50 track in the mt55cc track bag. Will the Crosscut rail fit the track bag? It is a bit wider but if it would fit I might get a bag myself. The bag makes sense now that I have four rails for the saw. And a few more in the workshop so if I could fit two + rail in the bag I'd go for it for sure. I just didn't know the Cross Cut Rail would fit the bag. Regarding the Systainer / Bungy: For the Bungy cord you could run a small bolt through a washer and a plastic spacer and then attach the bungy on the outside. I actually have this solution on my small workshop door in the background. The hole would then be sealed by the bolt/screw and a small gasket if wanted and there would be no risk of water seeping in. Funny I didn't even think of it - though I have done it before on my current Rail storage hook on the door. Rails are secured by a Bungy attached to a screw/spacer/washer, locking the rails and keeping them from rattling around when I open/shut the door. If I get to it myself I will document it and post it here. I do have a few other solutions rattling around my partially empty skull but need to do some trial and error on the best permanent-ad-hoc-solution.  |
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Sept 26, 2017 16:03:16 GMT -5
To end this evenings posting streak I would like to add that plunging would be easier with the kick back stop in place as it will allow for forward movement only so it takes care of a bit of the awkward plunging with two hands while controlling and then locking the blade at the somewhat correct depth.
Levers are placed better for the KSS40 I think for that particular task.
As a whole I am happy to see that battery technology and machine motors are now up to the task of replacing corded machines. I really don't mind the extra step of switching on the vac before a cut - it is soo nice to get rid of the cables for most of the machines.
I don't think I would replace my MT55cc with the battery powered version, mostly because I don't use the MT55cc enough to warrant replacing it with a "similar/same" saw. If I was in the market now for a plunge saw I would go for the battery version though. My MT55cc is hunkering down in the work shop and I don't spend much time there due to most of my work being on site this year too so the battery gear gets a lot of mileage and I haven't found a single task where I have found them lacking in performance.
Good times to be a carpenter nowadays.
|
|
|
|
Post by calidecks on Sept 26, 2017 16:59:16 GMT -5
The cuts I make with the mt55cc are so important to my projects Im okay with breaking it out. Long cuts as well, so the dust extractor is a must.  |
|
|
|
Post by huntsgemein on Sept 26, 2017 17:46:54 GMT -5
Metabo have started to add their vibration sensing tech. to their vacs: at Bau they showed a couple of cordless vacs with solenoid operated start/stop relays. Just as with their LED lights sensors on the Metabo Mafell drills & the KSS50 saws, the hose-end mounted sensor picks up vibes from the tools' operation or activation to trip the solenoid & switch on the vac. One of the vacs is a 2 x 18v variant of the familiar Starmix type 35l extractor, the other is more of a systainer-style machine, which may or may not also have the option of mains operation too. This seems one workable solution to the perennial problem of cordless tool vac operation.
Yet another inexorable step towards a totally cordless workplace.
As an aside, it appears that Australia has just become the world's largest natural gas exporter. Cold comfort for us however, as the Government has also released dire warnings of East coast gas shortages as a consequence, together with the possible likelihood of extensive regional grid brownouts as a result of these shortages during the coming Summer peak power demand season. Just another justification for going cordless methinks!
Maybe in another 50 years or so our descendants will find our current dependence on fossil fuels for transport & power generation a bit quaint & anachronistic. They will instead be using their local service station for a regular 6 monthly top-up of their cars' & tools' fuel cells. Granddad, did you really burn coal to make power for your tools? How did that work?
|
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Sept 27, 2017 0:14:06 GMT -5
Calidecks: well, over there you have a fairly large market for exotic woods and people with the financial means (and sometimes good taste too) while most people over here are going for the generic pressure treated stuff. Huntsgemein: there are remotes for Festool Vac's as an add on - a module that fits into that extra socket on the larger Vac's. Then you have a button you can clip on your person. Motion/Vibration sensors seem like a good idea if they can "tune" the sensor to tool activation only. Would hate to have to tip toe around the Vac - Ninja Style  - in order not to trigger it inadvertently. And what if someone is using a Jackhammer in the vicinity? Would the Vac go mental? |
|
|
|
Post by huntsgemein on Sept 27, 2017 2:26:44 GMT -5
It's vibration, not motion that activates the sensor. There's a video from Bau showing an Italian commentator trying to start the vac whilst disconnected from the tool. Shaking didn't work, neither did tapping. But when he ran his fingernail end down the corrugations of the hose it activated. Bad luck I suppose if your tool's particularly smooth running!
One reason I asked about the cordless SCMS fitting into the Mafell steel trunk was that I thought that may be a practical use for this grossly expensive white elephant. Unfortunately not, it seems. Apart from the rather dubious looking plastic latches, the trunk itself will assuredly outlast the tool itself many times over. But it just isn't worth the $500 odd extra that it would cost to purchase. Unless or until the company comes to its senses & offers the KSS 50 Bl in the same cardboard box as the corded KSS 50 I'll just have to do without this fine tool.
A pity really. Yet another marketing opportunity lost by nothing more than an ill-conceived packaging decision. Even settling for the corded KSS 50 isn't really a viable option either: despite being significantly less expensive, it's not really (with the exception of those excellent Bosch rails) any superficially better than my KSE 55 Vario, plus it's a couple of kilos heavier too. Yes, it crosscuts conveniently, but so does my Metabo & Bosch SCMS & even my old Radial Arm Saw. (the crosscut king).
What the KSS 50 18M Bl offers, & delivers, is a pretty unique combination of features: accurate, easy & fast ripping, measured, rapid crosscutting & accurate plunge-cutting & more conventional hand sawing in one small, convenient, cordless package. Of course it's expensive. Quality & innovation almost always is. But there's a significant dichotomy between merely expensive quality and unnecessary extravagance. I'm sorry if I come across as a bit of a whinger, but an additional $500 for what will prove to be a useless steel trunk is little short of outrageous. For me it represents the difference between affordable luxury and indulgent extravagance. In other words, a deal-breaker.
Wake up Mafell! Offer it in a cardboard box as well, you bunch of clowns.
|
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Sept 27, 2017 13:20:43 GMT -5
Well, if Mafell would get an Ozzie distributor I am sure you could sweet-talk them into keeping the steel carcass for display purposes. You seem to possess the oratory and descriptive powers necessary to convince the dealership of the virtue of omitting that sarcophagus from the invoice. I did use the Mafell Sarcophagus today and I have to say it is a welcome addition. It navigated up to a property over cobblestone, grass and even a rocky incline with ease. I could fit a smaller stack of Systainers on top and pull it up some decking stairs. I am now motivated to actually make an insert for it. At the end of the day the walk down the same path was smooth as. I am generally not a fan of large, heavy boxes and I have tried a few custom cases before but nowadays I kind of like packing up a larger box with the extra tools necessary - on top of what I usually bring. I got tired of hauling Systainers en masse - and stacking and packing a lot of empty space. Birds of a feather now flock together... The red latches are fairly solid but they come with a nasty built in "spring surprise". They require that you actively push them in after closing the lid and closing the latches. That is: you need to push them latches in _after_ closing them. Failure to perform that extra step is rewarded with a jack-in-the-box pop up scene where the latches spring open again and the contents spill out. Design flaw, in my book. The latches are lockable and two keys are provided. |
|
|
|
Post by calidecks on Sept 28, 2017 0:23:18 GMT -5
The track does not fit in the bag : 😠
|
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Sept 28, 2017 12:08:56 GMT -5
Well, that's what I thought when I was eyeballing the bag online... ...bummer!
More so considering you have the other rails. One bag is sooo much nicer than two bags for that purpose.
Festool makes a bag for their HKC version and it would probably fit.
|
|
- in order not to trigger it inadvertently.