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Post by henrun on Oct 27, 2017 1:30:58 GMT -5
Pretty sure you can adjust the base of the MT55? Don't know honestly, but the rubbers are already cut on all rails except the two for the KSS50. The problem is that the KSS saws don't allow for lateral adjustment AFAIK so adjusting the MT55 would still leave me with one out of three not compatible. As for now the MT55cc and the KSS40 are compatible for the FSN rails. The KSS40 is my preferred saw, by far, so I'd like to keep the two compatible. If the KSS50 was adjustable it would solve it but I think the cross cut rails extra guide ridge/slot doesn't allow for any adjustments. Since I only build maybe two decks per year I should perhaps bite the bullet and sell off the KSS50 (!) and shrink down the outfit to my previous KSS40/MT55cc. Adding the Metabo '57 for deck builds costs virtually nothing in the large scheme of things - at that price it can be a machine that gets used less often with no regrets. Also saves me the hassle of thinking which saw to bring for all the indoor jobs... ...I work with sheet material a lot so they are both capable in that regard. I am starting a project that could be done entirely with the KSS50, which is very tempting to try. There is just one ac outlet so there is only room for one charger or with a splitter three hook ups, including a charger. A vac is a must and considering the location and I was thinking a radio is mandatory for company.
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Post by henrun on Oct 27, 2017 1:35:29 GMT -5
Henrik, it must be extremely frustrating that your saw "collection" doesn't cut with any element of linear concentricity. I can see that the KSS 50 appears to be the culprit here, cutting one millimetre proud of the other two saws' cutlines. At first I had the erroneous "light bulb moment" that all that was required was to machine the motor side of the blade mounting flange down 1mm to compensate for its offset tracking. I say erroneous, because on reflection this won't work: it doesn't take into account the linear relationship between blade & riving knife. So what about the possibility of instead packing out the arbours of the other two saws using appropriately sized washers on the shaft to the "left" of the blade flange? I know it sounds like a bit of a bodge-job, but if you could adjust the cut lines of the other 2 saws they could all become concentric. Assuming of course that the "40" actually lacks a riving knife too. If it does have one, this too would require packing out to the corresponding amount. Is this bit of lateral thinking even possible or practical at all? Alternatively, is the mounting of the "50's" flippkiel laterally adjustable at all? If so, then my original proposal of machining its arbour flange down actually could become a viable possible solution. Or is the whole proposal preposterous? I applaud your lateral thinking skills - they however do not coincide with my mechanical skills when it comes to the above - seemingly brilliant - plan. I can see myself dangling from a kicked over chair, over a pile of parts in the basement... The KSS40 has a flip keil too, a wee one.
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Post by huntsgemein on Oct 27, 2017 5:15:51 GMT -5
Bummer. Thought it might be some kind of a "work around" to satisfy your need to have linear symmetry of your saw cuts. Mind you, it's really the fault of Mafell's QC that their saws don't cut in the same plane. There's a difference between "tolerances" & imprecision, & for once it appears that Mafell have crossed that line.
Some years ago I had a dozen or so multipane colonial sash windows to make. From scratch. The timber, which I'd previously felled, milled, racked & dressed was Celery Top Pine, a Tassie endemic. A bit "carroty" to mould on the router table, & the sizes were a bit small with the glazing bars being a bit fragile to tenon & create the angled cross halving joints. All mortises in the stiles were cut with a 1/4" hollow chisel & angled for wedging, but those super fine long 1/4" x 3/4" wedged through-tenons were cut unbelievably labouriously 2-3mm at a time on the Radial Arm Saw. Until I bought an adjustable "wobbling" dado head.
The bore was good (16mm/5/8"), but the arbor length was too long to refit the clamping nut. So I filed a bit off the rear of the arbor flange. Great for the wobble Saw, but unfortunately I also induced some wobble into the standard blade too! Got it remachined for concentricity, but now unfortunately out of line with the saw's riving knife! That was OK, though as RAS are way too dangerous for ripping anyway. Rip Saw blades definitely need to be BELOW the table, not above.
One day I might even get a new flange to bring it all back to factory spec, but I've since removed the kickback pawls & knife assembly anyway so as to fit a slightly larger 260mm negative rake spare blade from my long gone Kapex.
Which is an exteremely round about way of saying that one "messes" with precision machinery at one's peril. What may at first seem like a good idea may very well land you in an unanticipated world of shit! My dad used to say "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
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Post by huntsgemein on Oct 27, 2017 5:36:19 GMT -5
Pretty sure you can adjust the base of the MT55? Don't know honestly, but the rubbers are already cut on all rails except the two for the KSS50. The problem is that the KSS saws don't allow for lateral adjustment AFAIK so adjusting the MT55 would still leave me with one out of three not compatible. As for now the MT55cc and the KSS40 are compatible for the FSN rails. The KSS40 is my preferred saw, by far, so I'd like to keep the two compatible. If the KSS50 was adjustable it would solve it but I think the cross cut rails extra guide ridge/slot doesn't allow for any adjustments. Since I only build maybe two decks per year I should perhaps bite the bullet and sell off the KSS50 (!) and shrink down the outfit to my previous KSS40/MT55cc. Adding the Metabo '57 for deck builds costs virtually nothing in the large scheme of things - at that price it can be a machine that gets used less often with no regrets. Also saves me the hassle of thinking which saw to bring for all the indoor jobs... ...I work with sheet material a lot so they are both capable in that regard. I am starting a project that could be done entirely with the KSS50, which is very tempting to try. There is just one ac outlet so there is only room for one charger or with a splitter three hook ups, including a charger. A vac is a must and considering the location and I was thinking a radio is mandatory for company. Henrik, as you well know I'd be interested in your "50" if you indeed eventually do decide to sell. Assuming that you'd be posting it in cardboard rather than steel! I'm not in any particular hurry, so persist with it a while more to see if it "grows" on you a bit before (or indeed if) you actually decide to sell. As it'll be my only Mafell Saw it's linear concentricity (relative to its peers) is immaterial to me, & besides, AU $2K+ is frankly beyond my limited means for a brand new steel encased example! Please PM if you indeed do eventually become fed up with it, which you seem to be on the threshold of already!
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Post by skinee on Oct 27, 2017 7:50:40 GMT -5
Bummer. Thought it might be some kind of a "work around" to satisfy your need to have linear symmetry of your saw cuts. Mind you, it's really the fault of Mafell's QC that their saws don't cut in the same plane. There's a difference between "tolerances" & imprecision, & for once it appears that Mafell have crossed that line. I agree with the above,mafell have stuffed up in a major fashion.everything revolves around the rails and cross compatibility of the saws on the rails.it is meant to be, as I understand it, any saw on any rail and the cutline bang on the anti splinter strip.this 'constant' offset distance should be applicable to all saws in the range,for the bigger saws such as the k85 with thicker blades then I would assume and expect that they take that into account during design/manufacture and so the unchanging constant offset remains the same.to be a full mm out is 'beyond the pale' especially with no adjustment capability on the arbour.in my view anyone who has bought the 50 and finds it is 1mm out would and should be entitled to return the saw to their dealer for a full refund as in my opinion it should be deemed to be faulty.
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Post by kraftt on Oct 27, 2017 10:24:12 GMT -5
I blame ‘ this’ guy. Let’s write a letter to his dad and grandfather telling him not to stay out so late partying and snorting profits and get back to work.
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Post by arvid on Oct 27, 2017 12:00:18 GMT -5
I blame ‘ this’ guy. Let’s write a letter to his dad and grandfather telling him not to stay out so late partying and snorting profits and get back to work. I think its the little guy with the long side burns.
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Post by henrun on Oct 27, 2017 15:06:58 GMT -5
Haha - that's the exact outfit I was referring to earlier in the thread...
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Post by kraftt on Oct 27, 2017 15:22:16 GMT -5
I blame ‘ this’ guy. Let’s write a letter to his dad and grandfather telling him not to stay out so late partying and snorting profits and get back to work. I think its the little guy with the long side burns. hmmm, you’re right. Festool probably has their hooks into both of them.
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Post by aas on Oct 27, 2017 15:35:01 GMT -5
Metabo '57 delivery delayed until 2nd week in November...
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Post by henrun on Oct 30, 2017 13:42:50 GMT -5
aas: well, it is soon enough. On the Dust Bag issue I can report that Metabo dustbag for the mitre saws fits like the proverbial glove on the outside of the dustport, is "the right size", very lightweight and is easy to empty. It was in pure frustration I reached for the Metabo bag after the Mafell bag was either in the way pointing downwards or simply falling off - or the rubber plug fell off - I was about to throw it in the bin... The Metabo bag improves dust collection over the original bag. I can highly recommend it. Had to precut some 45x70 and 45x95 studs for a minor repair job today and can report that the KSS50 cut down the studs to length with formidable ease, cannot ask for better. Quality of cut with the 24T blade is very good except for some fray on the underside of the cut. The Metabo dustbag did a very good job so I took the adapter off the KSS50 - there is simply no need as the Metabo bag replaces the Mafell dustbag and is a far better solution. Problem solved - case closed. On the plus side the poorly designed KSS50 dustbag fits the KSS40 just fine - and on the outside of the port so it was transferred to the "other" SYS. It is a bit of a squeeze to fit the KSS50 dustbag in the KSS40 SYS but it works. Considering how much I use the KSS40 and how fast I can fill up the wee diaper the KSS50 bag will surely be an "upgrade".
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Post by aas on Oct 30, 2017 14:23:03 GMT -5
How weird - I discovered the same thing today. Couldn't be bothered to get the Vac out of the van for a quick cut - the Metabo mitre saw bag fits perfectly on the MT55 and it works very well!
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Post by calidecks on Oct 30, 2017 15:06:44 GMT -5
Couldn't find that specific Metabo dust bag, but I did find this.
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Post by calidecks on Oct 30, 2017 15:14:56 GMT -5
aas: well, it is soon enough. On the Dust Bag issue I can report that Metabo dustbag for the mitre saws fits like the proverbial glove on the outside of the dustport, is "the right size", very lightweight and is easy to empty. It was in pure frustration I reached for the Metabo bag after the Mafell bag was either in the way pointing downwards or simply falling off - or the rubber plug fell off - I was about to throw it in the bin... The Metabo bag improves dust collection over the original bag. I can highly recommend it. Had to precut some 45x70 and 45x95 studs for a minor repair job today and can report that the KSS50 cut down the studs to length with formidable ease, cannot ask for better. Quality of cut with the 24T blade is very good except for some fray on the underside of the cut. The Metabo dustbag did a very good job so I took the adapter off the KSS50 - there is simply no need as the Metabo bag replaces the Mafell dustbag and is a far better solution. Problem solved - case closed. On the plus side the poorly designed KSS50 dustbag fits the KSS40 just fine - and on the outside of the port so it was transferred to the "other" SYS. It is a bit of a squeeze to fit the KSS50 dustbag in the KSS40 SYS but it works. Considering how much I use the KSS40 and how fast I can fill up the wee diaper the KSS50 bag will surely be an "upgrade". Henrun, if you ever think of it can you get a part number for that bag? Right now I'm extremely jealous. That is all!
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Post by henrun on Oct 30, 2017 15:45:44 GMT -5
Here you go: Metabo part no 316056340 www.mtmc.co.uk/Metabo-KS-18-LTX-216-/-19000000-Spare-Parts__p-104180.aspxListed in the blow up as #34 Dust Extraction Kit Complete. Verrry cheap. It is the same bag as virtually every other Metabo corded/cordless mitre saw from what I have seen. I have the KGS315 (cheap workhorse) and the 18V KGS 18 LTX 18V machine - dust bags are the same.
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