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Post by skinee on Oct 25, 2017 16:08:35 GMT -5
well that's another box ticked on the 'reasons not to buy the kss 50' list:cuts are 1mm out side the anti splinter strip unlike most of the other saws,about as useful as a chocolate fireguard!i'm thinking of trying the new metabo ks 18 ltx 57,i can get the bare saw for £178 in about 7-10 days,might be worth a punt(even with its limitations) at less than 1/5 the cost of the kss 50.
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Post by henrun on Oct 25, 2017 16:13:07 GMT -5
Yes, I don't know if it shows in the picture but I did swing the bag down as much as possible to help gravity do its thing.
Good to hear that they replaced the saw. Always feels a bit better than having a dud repaired...
Let us know how you get along with the KSS50 now that you got the replacement - I am very interested to hear some "heavy user" input. I think you might find the 16T blade a necessity.
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Post by henrun on Oct 25, 2017 16:22:29 GMT -5
well that's another box ticked on the 'reasons not to buy the kss 50' list:cuts are 1mm out side the anti splinter strip unlike most of the other saws,about as useful as a chocolate fireguard!i'm thinking of trying the new metabo ks 18 ltx 57,i can get the bare saw for £178 in about 7-10 days,might be worth a punt(even with its limitations) at less than 1/5 the cost of the kss 50. Yes, it is a nuisance if you have several saws. It would have been much better to be able to share the rails freely. I did not look into it beforehand as I was running the KSS40 with the Flexirail and Cross cut rail and a 800mm rail "only". It was great to see that the cut matches the MT55cc rail strips - saves me from buying and keeping track of more rails in the loop and makes me able to tackle even more with the KSS40 without having to fork out extra dough or refitting rubber strips all the time. If they had all matched up it would have saved me a pretty penny for them three rails, angle unit and connectors. Still, if the saw doesn't act up on me I can live with having them three rails plus angle unit separate for the KSS50 in the skibag. It gives me four solid meters with the connectors and I very seldom need more in one go. Haven't checked out the Metabo yet. Is it FSN rail compatible?
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Post by henrun on Oct 25, 2017 16:34:04 GMT -5
KS18LTX 57 _is_ compatible with Bosch and Mafell rails. And it costs roughly $200 as a solo unit! The Swedish price is very low and it is introduced at 12% off list price. It actually costs the same as most other cordless solo units.
It is a different kind of saw but I have to say it is ridiculously cheap in comparison. And I am sure it is no slouch either.
Went to the Metabo site and enlarged the photo and then you can spin the image. It seems they put the plunge lock to the left hand side/bottom which isn't a bad idea at all - would make plunging a little bit easier as you can have the stabilizing hand by the locking lever and on the base.
EDIT:
18T blade as standard and blade brake. Alu base plate.
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Post by skinee on Oct 25, 2017 16:39:19 GMT -5
yes its FSN compatible,also compatible with festools rails I believe,if there is no offset,with regard to the anti splinter strip,on the metabo at 90 degrees then it would be good value I think as 90% of my cuts will be at 90 degrees.it would be too much to hope I think that on a bevel/mitre cut there would be no offset with the strip but I would expect that.i think I may be tempted to try it.
edit:yes and that is a thin kerf blade and is 165mm,may be worth a try on the kss 50,might stretch the cutting abilities.
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Post by shokunin on Oct 25, 2017 20:15:55 GMT -5
Hi Henrun, Do you have a link to a swedish website selling these saws? I rang Metabo Australia and they have no plans of importing this saw so will have to source it from overseas. I was thinking of buying a KSS 50 but now not that keen after reading some of the feedback on this site.
There's no mention on the Metabo site of it having a brushless motor so I assume it has brushes. Found this on Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orIWJAgOOO4 The new model spins at 4600rpm.The older model 2700.
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Post by aas on Oct 26, 2017 0:53:43 GMT -5
I've just ordered the new Metabo '57 - 189€ inc delivery. The only other option for a 'cheap' saw that runs on the F rails was the Bosch, but I don't use that battery platform.
For rough cuts, leaving outside while sizing up panels, cutting out old boards with tile adhesive on, etc., no way I want to use my KSS40.
Plus the blades are a common size and cheaper.
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Post by henrun on Oct 26, 2017 1:57:26 GMT -5
Hi Henrun, Do you have a link to a swedish website selling these saws? I rang Metabo Australia and they have no plans of importing this saw so will have to source it from overseas. I was thinking of buying a KSS 50 but now not that keen after reading some of the feedback on this site. There's no mention on the Metabo site of it having a brushless motor so I assume it has brushes. Found this on Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orIWJAgOOO4 The new model spins at 4600rpm.The older model 2700. there you go: www.proffsmagasinet.se/verktyg/batteridrivna-verktyg/sagverktyg/metabo-ks-18-ltx-57-cirkelsag-utan-batterier-och-laddare-?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItrqcz9qN1wIVQi0ZCh3F-ANNEAYYASABEgL7o_D_BwE£172 or $227 including shipping. It is almost too good to pass up. Just like aas wrote the idea of having a _cheap_ rough saw that can be abused a little more on site is very tempting. It costs _less_ than the 770 rail I am not getting for the KSS 50. Spare 18T blades are £16/$20! That's great! Blades are 1.5mm thickness. Hopefully the cut will be in the correct position on the rubber strip. Will order one blade and try out. 0
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Post by shokunin on Oct 26, 2017 4:26:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the link Henrun, I rang the company and unfortunately they don't ship outside of Scandanavia. They are not available in The UK until mid November. I did however find a German Metabo dealership that will ship to Australia. Have placed my order so am waiting for a reply to confirm total cost including shipping to Australia.
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Post by henrun on Oct 26, 2017 13:45:23 GMT -5
I have an account at the dealership I linked to. I have a good report with the staff there. They are also quite close by and in the midst of a move to a new location just five to ten minutes drive from me - but I am not sure about shipping procedures to Australia - might turn out a nightmare with papers and documentation if I were to send it to you. It would hardly pass as a gift. On topic I decided to sacrifice a 38mm sink cutout piece in fine oak to make a plunge cut and then proceeded to cut up the scraps. I marked out the square with a sharpie about a mm thick and made an effort to cut it out at "half" the sharpie mark/line. It was a bit of an effort to make the actual "plunge in" to the final depth of cut - guess I am spoiled by regular plunge saws - but to be fair to the KSS50 it did the job down to that half a mm precision all around the cut and into the corners. It would pass for a critical cut out on an expensive counter top - but I would have to be sober. The 32T blade was used and when plunged it did the cut both with and across the grain with little effort - on par with what I had expected from the saw initially - happy to have it confirmed. Had the kick back stop installed and it made it a little easier to concentrate on the plunging motion. Also had a lpiece of scrap oak at around 36mm thickness and made some mitre cuts at 45 degrees left and right with the 32T blade and can report that it too went smooth and with great quality of cut. Did end up getting more dust in the dustbag as I could angle it down some more. Still, during the plunge cutting there was quite a bit of sawdust escaping. Vac is recommended indoors, for sure. After the cut out I marked up a new square 15mm outside of the previous one and cut that out with the KSS40. I am again impressed by the power of that little thing. Sure, it was straining a bit more than the KSS50 but it was a bit easier to control the plunge-in with the KSS40 down to full depth. (At 38mm it is just about the full depth of cut on the FSN rail). The 24T blade was used on the KSS40. The one negative with the KSS40 is that the kick back stop can't be used because the battery pack interferes so when you plunge down you eventually raise the saw from the rail... ...which is all bad for a successful plunge cut. However the KSS40 isn't prone to kick back really and it has the electronic kick back control. I had no problems with either saw plunging in oak. Cutting that oak did take a toll on the battery on the KSS40 but on the KSS50 I was just down one bar after toying around some with plunge cutting and cross cutting scraps. That pressure treated stuff that had me thinking twice about battery gear sure must have been some of the most demanding material when it comes to power consumption... I wouldn't say the KSS40 is a very smooth plunge saw either but at least it is quite agile and power is easily controlled. Neither saw is being advertised as a plunge saw - they are cross cut saws - so you can't really kick Mafell over this. For plunge cutting sheet goods both saws work really well - for benchtops it can be done with a little more effort and deliberation but they are inferior in this regard to the better plunge saws. Might have to get used to the idea of having three saws and keep the MT55cc on stand by for critical plunge cuts. And get an extra long cord for it. There is simply not ONE saw to do it all flawlessly.
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Post by henrun on Oct 26, 2017 14:28:36 GMT -5
Seems that I usually end up in that circular reasoning ( = bubble of confusion) trying to find the "best" solution to my very varying sawing needs. Much as I hate compromise there is simply some things that end up being work arounds if you don't want one saw of every kind.
I was really hoping to narrow it down to _two_ compatible track saws. As it stands now the KSS50 is not "rail/rubber compatible" with the MT55cc so for any shared task I would have to bring five to six rails (!) Perhaps the best pairing is the KSS40 and the MT55cc as they share rails without having to think twice or recut rail strips but then again I lose the simplicity of cross cutting 2X material.
I don't have any outdoor builds until spring - 'tis the indoor season now - so I can keep stroking my beard over this for a few months until I cave in to reality.
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Post by aas on Oct 26, 2017 15:20:23 GMT -5
I agree with you Henrun - trying to keep to two rail saws is impossible. I'm hoping with MT55, KSS40 and the new Metabo '57 I should have all bases covered!
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Post by huntsgemein on Oct 26, 2017 16:44:22 GMT -5
Henrik, it must be extremely frustrating that your saw "collection" doesn't cut with any element of linear concentricity. I can see that the KSS 50 appears to be the culprit here, cutting one millimetre proud of the other two saws' cutlines.
At first I had the erroneous "light bulb moment" that all that was required was to machine the motor side of the blade mounting flange down 1mm to compensate for its offset tracking. I say erroneous, because on reflection this won't work: it doesn't take into account the linear relationship between blade & riving knife. So what about the possibility of instead packing out the arbours of the other two saws using appropriately sized washers on the shaft to the "left" of the blade flange? I know it sounds like a bit of a bodge-job, but if you could adjust the cut lines of the other 2 saws they could all become concentric.
Assuming of course that the "40" actually lacks a riving knife too. If it does have one, this too would require packing out to the corresponding amount. Is this bit of lateral thinking even possible or practical at all? Alternatively, is the mounting of the "50's" flippkiel laterally adjustable at all? If so, then my original proposal of machining its arbour flange down actually could become a viable possible solution.
Or is the whole proposal preposterous?
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Post by lincoln on Oct 26, 2017 18:45:42 GMT -5
Pretty sure you can adjust the base of the MT55?
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Post by henrun on Oct 27, 2017 1:18:21 GMT -5
I agree with you Henrun - trying to keep to two rail saws is impossible. I'm hoping with MT55, KSS40 and the new Metabo '57 I should have all bases covered! It is a smart set up: one plunge master, one agile all rounder and one cheap brute/henchman for gritty work. The Metabo '57 has a four pole motor so geared for torque.
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