|
Post by henrun on Oct 23, 2017 2:24:08 GMT -5
Pardon the outfit; I was kicked to the curb by the missus straight from an outing in the woods with the Dawg so I didn't get to change from tattered dog-pawed worker jeans and muddy LaSportiva cross country shoes into the _correct_ Journeymans timeless (dated) manchester outfit that comes included with the purchase of any Mafell saw system. I was going to upload a 2 meter rip cut on the same piece of wood as on the next two clips - with the KSS40 and 12T blade on 50mm = No through cut. I accidentally removed that clip when clearing messed up clips from the phone... However I can report that the KSS40 slid through the piece fastest of them all at full capacity. It dropped from three bars down to two bars but did the No through cut with just a little grunt and at a steady pace. Quite impressive. Next clip is the KSS50 18M on 2 meters of 50/52mm doing a rip cut on the FSN3000 rail using the 24T blade. Before anyone argues I think the saw whould at least be able to perform that cut with that blade. I have the 16T blade on order now and will repost with the "correct" blade. Had this been on site today I would have had to do it with what I have. It went through at the cost of a whole bar per meter on the battery... Last video is with the MT55cc - it is on the premises of a few "no-no's" but I think it goes to show two things: that the expectations of the KSS50 occasionally ripping with the 24T blade should not be asking too much. It also shows what a great piece of kit the MT55cc is. This is with a Bosch 48T blade ripping down the same piece of wood. I only have a few 48T blades for the MT55cc and have no rip blades at the moment. I thought I'd see how it fares and it still outgunned the KSS50 18M for sure, with twice the tooth count on the same rip cut; MT55cc with 48T and KSS50 with 24T. Rate of feed was held back but going by the machines ability and didn't go for broke. Felt consistent throughout the cut and only change in rpm was when I repositioned myself during the cut. MY conclusion is: The KSS40 is a little beast! It impresses with all blades and does really well with 12T blade. Of course it does not rip well with the 32T blade but on the other hands the lesser tooth blades do not fray that much in crosscuts and can be used for non rip cuts as well. Fantastic machine! The KSS50 is the most blade sensitive in a way. It is a very good saw but feels a little strained at times, even in cross cuts. I don't think the KSS50 will miss a beat for flooring and sub flooring chipboards and such but honestly the KSS40 does that too at a much lesser weight. Battery drain for cross cuts seems poor but let's not judge it before tested with the 16T blade. I will keep the board and run the 16T blade a few passes when I get it and then we'll see how much oomph we get from the LiHD batteries. The MT55cc corded wasn't given an ideal task - but it is true to life that I might as well have had the "correct" blade in for sharpening and simply "had to" make a cut with the less than ideal blade. Given that the MT55cc performed remarkably well with the 48T blade. No burning of wood, absolutely clean cut and machine pushed on through.
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Oct 23, 2017 2:35:53 GMT -5
Does the kss 50 18v come with a thinner blade like the cordless kss60 and kss 400 36v? The KSS 50 blades are all 168 x 1.8/2.0 mm - the same thickness as the MT55cc blades. However the MT55cc blades are 160 and 162mm, so slightly smaller. I could use the MT55cc blades on the KSS 50 for some crucial thinner material cuts but the other way around is not recommended as the blade size on the KSS 50 exceeds the maximum size allowed on the MT55cc. There is some cross compatibility on the blades and the good news is that Bosch blades can be used on the KSS50 for sure. I have a few Optimum blades from Bosch and they are "quiet" and cut really well. Saves me from ordering a fint tooth blade for the KSS 50! Festool HKC on the other hand run on thinner blades than the TS55 - Festool realized that thinner blades are necessary for the battery powered machine and since the TS55 blades were already implemented they had no choice but to make a whole new set of blades. Someone can probably enlighten me on the TSC55 blades, I don't know if they are same as or thinner than the TS55.
|
|
|
Post by chippiegary on Oct 23, 2017 2:41:25 GMT -5
Brilliant henrun well done and thanks for all that . Is there a massive difference running the kss40 on the newer Lihd batteries over the older batteries I have “ may buy a couple of 7.ah metabo lihd “ thanks again Gary
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Oct 23, 2017 2:58:41 GMT -5
Chippiegary: I can definitely recommend the corded KSS60 if weight/size is not a problem. It is a fantastic machine. Built like a tank and drives like a Lambo. KSS40 Pro's Nimble, yet powerful Flexirail and FSN rail compatible Cuts well with a number of blades Blades on offer encompass pretty much all tasks the saw can handle. Blades not too expensive. Metabo 18V platform compatible. KSS40 Con's Does not cut 2X. - really? That's it? Ok:Blade size leaves you with no other choice but Mafell blades. But really, not a biggie, se Pro's. And, Ok, blade strip on cross cut rail is brittle. Bought a few spares I did. KSS50 Pro's Cuts 2x Great cross cut rail with optional cross cut rails. Well balanced in use FSN rail compatible 18V Metabo platform compatible KSS50 Con's No Flexirail Struggles a little near or at full depth capacity Drains battery quite fast during tougher cuts Not the same size blades as the MT55cc. KSS60 36V Pro's Be all you can be. KSS 60 36V Con's 36V? No thanks. (But Bosch brought out some LiHD batteries recently huh?) Heavy set. Cross Cut rail mounted makes the machine feel like wielding a medieval sword AND a shield at the same time... KSS60cc Pro's See MT55cc Pro's and deduct smooth plunge cutting from that assessment. KSS60cc Con's the medieval handling of sword and shield with the same arm and add a trip wire to the end of the machine... MT55cc Pro's Too many to list... Mt55cc Con's What's that thing dangling at the end of the machine, tripping up my feet? Very hastily written ^^^^ gotta go to work!
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Oct 23, 2017 3:04:04 GMT -5
Brilliant henrun well done and thanks for all that . Is there a massive difference running the kss40 on the newer Lihd batteries over the older batteries I have “ may buy a couple of 7.ah metabo lihd “ thanks again Gary Honestly I did too few cross cuts to say. On cross cuts at full depth I felt no difference really. They were equal at that task. For rip cuts I suspect you will have an advantage. At the moment the battery flora is abundant for sure and as it stands today on our turf the 5,5Ah LiHD are priced very generously and work well with the KSS40 for sure. The 5,2Ah batteries are about the same price. The newer 3,5Ah LiHD batt's are reasonably priced and the 3,1Ah are actually more expensive at the moment! I haven't tried the 7Ah LiHD batteries but I am not sure I could close the lid on the Systainer with those mounted. They would make sense for my Metabo mitre saw but what are the charging times? And weight? They would make sense on the KSS50 18M too I guess but I have to check them out in the flesh first... EDIT: the 5,5Ah LiHD are the golden standard for me. They last long and takes reasonable time to charge. For all other tools I would probably replace my 3,1Ah with 3,5LiHD over time - if I wear them out. EDIT on the EDIT: If I could close the lid on the SYS with a 7Ah LiHD mounted I would probably not mind getting one when the next project will finance one. Considering the light weight of the KSS40 it would not be thrown off balance with a 7Ah battery. I could possibly see a 7Ah battery on the mitre saw and relegating an old 5,2Ah as back up. I have the other 5,2Ah on the Metabo 18V work light which is literally brilliant. Smashed the glass on my forehead once though (don't ask...) and ordered a new cover glass which is opaque instead of clear. Smoother light but a little less output it seems.
|
|
|
Post by arvid on Oct 23, 2017 6:59:26 GMT -5
Does the kss 50 18v come with a thinner blade like the cordless kss60 and kss 400 36v? The KSS 50 blades are all 168 x 1.8/2.0 mm - the same thickness as the MT55cc blades. However the MT55cc blades are 160 and 162mm, so slightly smaller. I could use the MT55cc blades on the KSS 50 for some crucial thinner material cuts but the other way around is not recommended as the blade size on the KSS 50 exceeds the maximum size allowed on the MT55cc. There is some cross compatibility on the blades and the good news is that Bosch blades can be used on the KSS50 for sure. I have a few Optimum blades from Bosch and they are "quiet" and cut really well. Saves me from ordering a fint tooth blade for the KSS 50! Festool HKC on the other hand run on thinner blades than the TS55 - Festool realized that thinner blades are necessary for the battery powered machine and since the TS55 blades were already implemented they had no choice but to make a whole new set of blades. Someone can probably enlighten me on the TSC55 blades, I don't know if they are same as or thinner than the TS55. its funny mafell felt the need to supply thinner blades for their cordless kss 60 and kss400 but not the kss 50. thats another over sight in my opinion as well. if they felt that the previous cordless saws would perform better with a thinner kerf blade (and they do) why not continue that in the cordless kss 50
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on Oct 23, 2017 7:14:23 GMT -5
The blade that comes with the cordless kss400 is the standard 32 tooth blade and the thinner blade is an optional extra
|
|
|
Post by chippiegary on Oct 23, 2017 7:20:02 GMT -5
Good point that arvid its the same blade also on the kss40 as the kss 300
|
|
|
Post by jozsefkozma on Oct 23, 2017 8:17:59 GMT -5
Thanks again Henrik
|
|
|
Post by arvid on Oct 23, 2017 12:15:03 GMT -5
The blade that comes with the cordless kss400 is the standard 32 tooth blade and the thinner blade is an optional extra My kss60 36v and kss400 36v both came with the thinner blade batttery ideal printed on the blade.
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on Oct 23, 2017 15:23:28 GMT -5
The blade that comes with the cordless kss400 is the standard 32 tooth blade and the thinner blade is an optional extra My kss60 36v and kss400 36v both came with the thinner blade batttery ideal printed on the blade. Must of changed the package from when I got mine. At the time the thin kerf was standard on the cordless ksp55
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Oct 25, 2017 15:19:50 GMT -5
Lubed me up some rails today and cut me some rubber strips. Ain't talking poledancing here though! Took me some time to divide the rails up between the machines. It turned out they all got a fair share. From what I can tell the KSS40 and the MT55cc rubber strips match up so they could share rails without interfering with the rubber strip. This is a good thing as my FSN3000 rail is cut with the MT55cc and I would hate to restrip that one. The MT55cc is relegated to the large workshop so plenty of compatible rails there. When using the KSS50 on the same rails as the MT55cc the cut is almost a mm outside of the rubber lip so it is "doable" and this is how I worked the FSN3000 rail on site when I had that "one battery bar per meter of cut day". The gap cutting was not mm-critical - it just had to be straight. Borrowing a rail from the KSS50 doesn't work well though, that would cut down the rubber strip so the three rails and angle attachment are clearly marked now and will enjoy the padded skibag so they don't think of running away with the other saws... The KSS50 cross cut rail rubber strip is off by almost a full mm from factory but was easy to replace and recut so now all is well. Restripped one FSN angle rail thingy and two 1600mm rails for the KSS50 and ended up with a 800mm rail left over so restripped that one as well. Felt like ruining a perfectly good piece of birch plywood while cutting strips so decided to practise plunging the KSS50 and made three random triangles to plunge cut out. Well, I'll be honest, it is a bit awkward plunging the KSS50. I attached the kickback stop (to allow easy plunging down to the pencil mark). Took two cuts to find the right "balance" for operating the plunge lever and plunging and still it felt like the saw was a bit iffy to plunge to a predestined depth. But, looking at the end result I did manage to cut out the three triangles up to the pencil marks without ruining the rubber strip or the cutouts. So I will give it a "pass" on plunge action, but barely. I will dig out a piece of oak bench top I have left over and make another awkward plunge tomorrow and see if it is manageable. When picking up some sundries at the Mafell pusher I tried the KSS 50 on the Flexirail. It works. But, at the start when the rail is against the material and where the KSS300 and KSS40 "fits" after the red plastic handle and edge guide, the KSS50 sits on top of the handle and might make the start of the cut just a little awkward. But sliding the rail back from the material to be cut and allowing for poistioning the KSS50 properly makes it run as well as any other saw on the Flexirail. NO bevel cuts though. Only straight cuts. I am not sure the Flexirail is such a good idea for the KSS50 despite being very handy; no bevel cuts (which I seldom do anyway) but also plunge action is not so smooth and riskier on the Flexirail for sure. Also, the KSS50 does cut outside the black rubber cutting strip so it is off by almost a mm and can't be cut to true size unless replaced. I cut down the birch ply with both the Flexirail and the FSN angle unit and FSN rail attached and to be honest it felt better using the FSN rail - but there wasn't really a problem working the Flexirail. If plunge action had been smoother I would have packed a Flexirail in the SYS4 with the KSS50. Both the KSS 40/50 were very smooth in action and I cleaned out all blades and made some reference cuts with different tooth count blades to establish a standard for myself on cut quality with the blades I have. I am warming up some more to the KSS50 - phew - and considering how well the plunging went despite feeling awkward I feel I can get used to it. At the Mafell pusher we looked at the HKC55 and I checked out the plunge action on it (pre set, locks at preset when plunging and then locks in at set depth) and was very jealous - this means that one can fully concentrate on plunging alone and not fiddle with any levers. Well Done Festool. Wish Mafell had this feature. If I was in the market for this kind of saw and wasn't invested in any - or both - battery platforms and wasn't running any other track saw I might be swayed towards the HKC55. Easier to shop and find accessories, rail system same as the routers etc. I do prefer the FSN rail system by far though.
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Oct 25, 2017 15:47:14 GMT -5
Some other random thoughts:
Dust Bag does not collect as much dust as I had hoped. I don't think my little adapter is the culprit but I will check it again tomorrow and see if it would improve by sticking the bag straight in. I am quite sure it will fall off and spill out everything though. It just won't stay put by itself. Since my adapter is just going over the connection and does not interfere with the inner dimensions I don't see how it could improve significantly without it.
I was thinking about the 770 cross cut rail but have decided that the FSN angle rail attachment plus 800mm rail - which I already have - works as well and maybe even better if I were to have a stack of sub flooring boards to cut up. A little more reach and I already have them.
16 tooth blade seems a must have. Festool HKC 55 runs with 18T as the standard blade which seems kind of smart since it will allow for decent rip cutting, however when the Festool rep was doing a demo for us the chop cuts had very frayed edges on the cut which was too poor quality of cut for me. Festool offers a 12T Panther blade and a few other higher tooth count blades. I would like to see at what tooth count the Festool starts to choke up a little.
Mafell standard blade is 24T and as demonstrated isn't really up to par for ripping. Hopefully the 16T blade will be a lot better, not just a little better. The 24T blade cuts quite well, as does of course the 32T blade which I used for cutting up the Birch ply.
Not sure about the 56T blade, might borrow the 48T Bosch optimum blade I have for critical cuts (160 blade so a little less depth of cut).
If it is of interest to anyone I will post the oak bench top plunge cut results - I feel I am just rambling on a bit. The bench top left over is 38mm so it will be a "tough cut" for sure for a 32T blade and I am thinking the 24T on the rip sides of the cut and 32T across the grain - but it is a bit of a stretch having to switch blades on the same cut.
|
|
|
Post by henrun on Oct 25, 2017 15:56:29 GMT -5
As a sidenote I feel compelled to report that scribing and cutting a 4,20 meter long pressure treated 45(x145)mm on my Metabo 18V jigsaw with a Bosch progressor for wood blade and a fresh 3,1 Ah battery netted just five meters (or metres, if you are so inclined) of cut before running flat. Took two batteries to finish off them two cuts and I was lucky I had the third battery on my Mafell A18M drill to see me through the rest of that little fix up...
...I really missed the corded Mafell P1cc that day!
It seems Mafell is _not_ currently working on a 18V jigsaw, but I sure hope they were!
|
|
|
Post by calidecks on Oct 25, 2017 16:02:38 GMT -5
Some other random thoughts: Dust Bag does not collect as much dust as I had hoped. I don't think my little adapter is the culprit but I will check it again tomorrow and see if it would improve by sticking the bag straight in. I am quite sure it will fall off and spill out everything though. It just won't stay put by itself. Since my adapter is just going over the connection and does not interfere with the inner dimensions I don't see how it could improve significantly without it. I was thinking about the 770 cross cut rail but have decided that the FSN angle rail attachment plus 800mm rail - which I already have - works as well and maybe even better if I were to have a stack of sub flooring boards to cut up. A little more reach and I already have them. 16 tooth blade seems a must have. Festool HKC 55 runs with 18T as the standard blade which seems kind of smart since it will allow for decent rip cutting, however when the Festool rep was doing a demo for us the chop cuts had very frayed edges on the cut which was too poor quality of cut for me. Festool offers a 12T Panther blade and a few other higher tooth count blades. I would like to see at what tooth count the Festool starts to choke up a little. Mafell standard blade is 24T and as demonstrated isn't really up to par for ripping. Hopefully the 16T blade will be a lot better, not just a little better. The 24T blade cuts quite well, as does of course the 32T blade which I used for cutting up the Birch ply. Not sure about the 56T blade, might borrow the 48T Bosch optimum blade I have for critical cuts (160 blade so a little less depth of cut). If it is of interest to anyone I will post the oak bench top plunge cut results - I feel I am just rambling on a bit. The bench top left over is 38mm so it will be a "tough cut" for sure for a 32T blade and I am thinking the 24T on the rip sides of the cut and 32T across the grain - but it is a bit of a stretch having to switch blades on the same cut. I would like to add that having the port on the saw pointing down when cutting helps tremendously. Obviously due to gravity. By the way I got a replacement saw without any issues with the battery. The problem was more than likely an isolated issue.
|
|