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Post by arvid on Oct 19, 2017 6:36:28 GMT -5
yes i did mix them up. is there a newer version of the cordless kss400 that runs on 18v? or has that not changed yet? The 18v Metabo batteried & motored version of the KSS 400 is the KSS 40. i have them all and still get confused of the model numbers.
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Post by henrun on Oct 19, 2017 13:38:07 GMT -5
It's down 3 bars. Haven't used it. henrun have you had discharging issues? After three days - still four bars. All is good - BUT - I am not sure what to make of it: used the saw today and only got less than 10 meter of cutting on 34mm pressure treated pine on a full charge 5,2Ah battery. Unit was stored inside - it was two degrees outside so cold, but not freezing. This was crosscutting a stretch on FSN rails - so no ripping. I had to plunge into the cut - it was really slow going. And awkward. I had the kick back stop in place so could concentrate on the plunging but it was not smooth at all. Strange. Switched to LiHD 5,5Ah and did some rips - only got about ten meters of ripping before I was down to ONE bar. I did run the 24 tooth blade (have the 32 and the 24). I was honestly not impressed by only getting through two planks/boards with a lot of beeping and stopping on the machine. After ten minutes of cutting I was down two batteries already. I had to saw the angled cuts (145mm) verrrry sloooowly and the machine would stop two or three times during EVERY cut. I can honestly say that the KSS40 performed _at least_ as well on the very same decking a few months back. Sure, the pressure treated pine was a bit wet but not much wetter than last time, with the KSS40. I need to run them side by side a bit more before ordering a 16 tooth blade. I get that the 16 tooth blade will be more effective for ripping but c'mon - just nine meters of slow feed ripping? Going to test on dry and reasonably thick wood. This was not a good field day for the KSS 50.
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Post by henrun on Oct 19, 2017 13:46:11 GMT -5
Hi henrun yes I would be interested in selling the box will probably be selling my kss400 in a systainer so you could have that box “it’s a red one” as well if you wish i’m Based in Enfield north london where are you ? - “you could have a flotilla of boxes “!! I would definitely be interested in both boxes. I am across the pond, in Sweden, so not too sure on shipping rates. Might need to look into that first. I have bought amplifiers from the UK before with no problems. 30kg amps... ...but that guy might have had a good deal through his company. They would ship empty so lashed up together or shipped separately they are "just boxes" but shipping could be a bit expensive unless going through the right carrier. I guess a bit of cardboard/wrapping would not hurt - don't trust shipping companies all that much when it comes to delivering things unscratched, undinged and on time. If you have the time to look into shipping rates to Stockholm I am more than happy to pay in advance for boxes and shipping - if we agree on just the one kidney... ...gotta hold on to that other kidney if Mafell ever were to release a P1cc 18V machine...
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Post by chippiegary on Oct 19, 2017 14:13:29 GMT -5
That might be a while henrun ,asked the German guys at the show , they weren’t very forthcoming “like getting blood out of a stone “ but did say it was more like years not months off “one works in development by the way “ which I thought was strange as cordless jigsaw is the missing link in my book .a cordless kss 65 was mentioned with same battery platform as kss 40/50 but they wouldn’t speculate any more on that ,I even asked would it be worth holding off on kss50 “which I bought “ to be told it could be a long wait “ umm I wonder !! Anyway I’ll look into shipping costs for you “ cordless 18v planer maybe ?
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Post by chippiegary on Oct 19, 2017 14:45:44 GMT -5
Hopefully henrun it was maybe a wet timber issue I’ve not put mine through it’s paces yet bit worrying though ! I had a similar experience recently with a very expensive reclaimed Victorian door I was renovating ,I’d added probably about 50 mm to each side of the door “ client had bought too small “ the add ons were Douglas fir which i had domino jointed and had to trim them back by about 10mm each side to square everything up . I normally use a Bosch gks85g for this as i can normally cut in one pass “not a bad machine actually and it runs on f rails “ well my rip blade for it was being sharpened so I put in a cross cut blade maybe 50 teeth which was new , well I could hardly push it I eventually cut in two passes door was 45mm thick by the way ,as a matter of interest I left one side till rip blade was back honestly difference was unbelievable . Talking of donating organs I paid for all the different blades for kss50 today and the roller guide ouch that hurt
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Post by huntsgemein on Oct 19, 2017 16:44:35 GMT -5
Look fellas, I'm no apologist for any brand here, & obviously don't know the exact circumstances in which you're cutting. Nevertheless, let's not forget that you're cutting with a "mere" 18v. My own experiences with 18v saws has been particularly disappointing, too. The only battery saw that I currently still find useful in hardwood is an older model Bosch 36v tool.
Granted, my tools were earlier generation Metabo & Bosch & those others I've tried were Makita & Milwaukee tools, & none had EC motors either. All were similarly disappointing. Now these new Mafells, fitted with new gen. EC (Metabo grinder??) motors have a theoretical "output" of approx 1200w when fittted with Li-HD batteries, and somewhat less with the earlier generation "Ultra" batteries. The newer batteries simply deliver higher levels of current, & theoretically can therefore flatten themselves quicker. The salient question here is: do these new saws perform, in terms of power, in a similar manner to a 1200w mains powered equivalent?
In other words, is this performance that you're experiencing similar to other, lesser, gutless, older 18v saws or is there an element of "unrealistic" expectations? After all, the KSS 40 has I assume quite satisfactory performance at its rated capacity. The similarly equipped KSS 50 SHOULD therefore theoretically have similar performance in the same tasks, but perhaps slightly less satisfactory performance as its own significantly greater cutting capacity is approached. Presumably, similar (or exactly the same) motors are likewise used in the Metabo cordless EC 125/150 & 180 mm grinder siblings, with the performance of all diminishing with the individual tool's increasing capacity?
Do you think that it's more a matter of managing one's expectations, or is there truly a problem here?
I must say, in the light of this disquieting feedback from you fellows the corded version of the KSS 50 is suddenly becoming a more attractive alternative to me at the moment, especially considering it's available optionally without the ridiculously large & heavy expensive steel sarcophagus! I sincerely hope things resolve themselves positively for you all, & that these issues are mere "teething troubles" that are quickly & painlessly resolved.
As an aside, I've found that latter generation cordless tools seem to perform less than satisfactorily initially. After some time of use, particularly in hard going, they seem to "bed in" and over time perform much better. I sincerely hope that's the case in this particular circumstance.
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Post by jozsefkozma on Oct 19, 2017 17:27:40 GMT -5
The 40 and 50 comparison would really be helpful to make the decision Thanks for all the info
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Post by arvid on Oct 19, 2017 17:39:11 GMT -5
i ay hold off getting the cordless version of the kss50 after reading those posts above. What i don't understand is they have a 36v in a smaller saw the kss400 cordless. why drop down to an 18 volt battery for the kss 50 which is a bigger saw meant for cutting larger material. Even the festool track saw has the option to run 2 18 volt batteries.
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Post by chippiegary on Oct 19, 2017 18:49:02 GMT -5
Okay so got me thinking did I put ok blade in machine ?-so checked and sure enough I’d picked up a very used mt55 48 tooth blade “complete with teeth missing “ how ,I don’t know prob too eager anyway made four quick rip cuts with supplied 32 tooth blade not rip blade in Douglas fir 4x2 , pressure treated softwood pine I guess 4x2, 25mm mdf and 20mm oak ,all were cut about an inch wide using the mt55 guide fence with freshly charged full bar battery .result - unbelievable !! Underpowered ?- not in this life! all timber was dry machine did not miss a beat . Very very impressed !! Much more power I think than my kss40 I’ll post more observations as I go so early setback was user error duh !! Ps- each rip was about 4 feet long
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Post by huntsgemein on Oct 19, 2017 18:53:07 GMT -5
i ay hold off getting the cordless version of the kss50 after reading those posts above. What i don't understand is they have a 36v in a smaller saw the kss400 cordless. why drop down to an 18 volt battery for the kss 50 which is a bigger saw meant for cutting larger material. Even the festool track saw has the option to run 2 18 volt batteries. The smaller Saw is an older generation Bosch derived tool. If it's - as I assume it is - similar to my own older 36v Bosch cordless saw, then it employs long-superseded technology. Later generation 18v EC tools appear to be the current "gold standard" in cordless technology. The fact that Festo/ol currently finds it necessary to employ twin 18v batteries in its equivalent "copycat" saw is indicative to me of its design deficiencies, & not any sign (however remote) of any sort if inherent, innate superiority. I'm personally singularly unimpressed with the company's cordless offerings, which tend to employ second or even third-tier outmoded technology. Twin battery technology these days tends to be employed in seriously powerful large capacity mains replacement tools the like of Metabo's 230mm grinder & 250mm table saw, or Makita's cordless lawn mowers, brushcutters & chainsaws. Standard power tools, with smaller capacities such as SCMS, circular saws, stirrers & even SDS+ drills don't necessarily require 36v any more provided they employ EC motor & high capacity & current battery technology, such as the new generation of Mafell cordless saws.
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Post by mcnallyfamily on Oct 19, 2017 21:43:06 GMT -5
Look fellas, I'm no apologist for any brand here, & obviously don't know the exact circumstances in which you're cutting. Nevertheless, let's not forget that you're cutting with a "mere" 18v. My own experiences with 18v saws has been particularly disappointing, too. The only battery saw that I currently still find useful in hardwood is an older model Bosch 36v tool. Granted, my tools were earlier generation Metabo & Bosch & those others I've tried were Makita & Milwaukee tools, & none had EC motors either. All were similarly disappointing. Now these new Mafells, fitted with new gen. EC (Metabo grinder??) motors have a theoretical "output" of approx 1200w when fittted with Li-HD batteries, and somewhat less with the earlier generation "Ultra" batteries. The newer batteries simply deliver higher levels of current, & theoretically can therefore flatten themselves quicker. The salient question here is: do these new saws perform, in terms of power, in a similar manner to a 1200w mains powered equivalent? In other words, is this performance that you're experiencing similar to other, lesser, gutless, older 18v saws or is there an element of "unrealistic" expectations? After all, the KSS 40 has I assume quite satisfactory performance at its rated capacity. The similarly equipped KSS 50 SHOULD therefore theoretically have similar performance in the same tasks, but perhaps slightly less satisfactory performance as its own significantly greater cutting capacity is approached. Presumably, similar (or exactly the same) motors are likewise used in the Metabo cordless EC 125/150 & 180 mm grinder siblings, with the performance of all diminishing with the individual tool's increasing capacity? Do you think that it's more a matter of managing one's expectations, or is there truly a problem here? I must say, in the light of this disquieting feedback from you fellows the corded version of the KSS 50 is suddenly becoming a more attractive alternative to me at the moment, especially considering it's available optionally without the ridiculously large & heavy expensive steel sarcophagus! I sincerely hope things resolve themselves positively for you all, & that these issues are mere "teething troubles" that are quickly & painlessly resolved. As an aside, I've found that latter generation cordless tools seem to perform less than satisfactorily initially. After some time of use, particularly in hard going, they seem to "bed in" and over time perform much better. I sincerely hope that's the case in this particular circumstance. I can't help but remember throwing out at least three different generation's of battery powered drills, when my son and I cleaned out our basement, prior to setting up our shop. Thank God we were only dealing with drills, and not a complete set of battery powered tools. Of course my 25 year old corded tools worked (and still work), as well as they ever have. All this makes me wonder if these expensive battery powered saws ( some more than $1,000.00 each), will still be contenders even 5 years from now (and frankly, perhaps even sooner as fast as technology changes). Of course it should be pointed out that I don't work in the field, so I have no real need for the portability these cordless tools provide. I certainly can see the advantage of not needing extension cords while building a house, for instance. Even I have been considering one of Mafell's current cordless offerings, but have not been able to pull the trigger yet, due to the concerns listed. I think if I could offer one caveat regarding battery tools, it is the fact you should expect battery technology to continue changing dramatically over time. If people enter into these purchases with that knowledge, then they won't be disappointed when they are faced with the need to replace today's current offerings, sooner than they had hoped.
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Post by kraftt on Oct 19, 2017 22:46:06 GMT -5
This has got to be just one of those 1 in 10000 electronic component issues outside of mafells purview, and a luck of the draw. It's most likely going back and Cali will get a new set up sent out that will be rock solid mafell.
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Post by calidecks on Oct 19, 2017 23:23:50 GMT -5
This has got to be just one of those 1 in 10000 electronic component issues outside of mafells purview, and a luck of the draw. It's most likely going back and Cali will get a new set up sent out that will be rock solid mafell. I have to say Tobias has been extremely helpful. He's returning the saw. I volunteered to pay shipping one way. I'll be getting a new saw. I do believe there's a wait. But I'm a patient person. No big deal.
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Post by HenRun on the Run on Oct 20, 2017 1:44:33 GMT -5
Chippiegary: we'll work it out with the Metal cases, no rush! As for the feedback on the Mafell cutting woes I will perform a more structured test, maybe today already, as it is gnawing a little in my head. Wet (pressure treated wet) wood could be the culprit - of course - I am just not impressed with 9 meters of cut on a battery. If that is how fast the new batteries can drain at max output it is simply too fast. I would need two chargers on site - three even, for the other tools! The KSS40 has been cutting same wood, and ripping, as well as full depth cutting in MDF, "rip" cutting though ripping and crosscutting MDF is equally straining the motor. I was so impressed with the KSS40 an that's what got me into the KSS50. Too bad I no longer own the KSS60cc (corded) as a comparison on the spot would have been helpful. All I have is the measly MT55cc corded to compare it with now. Calidecks: fingers crossed!
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Post by Hen Run on the Run on Oct 20, 2017 1:46:08 GMT -5
BT Keyboard is lagging so spelling might be off
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