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Post by Nelsun on Jun 24, 2016 10:58:01 GMT -5
Sorry if this is an obvious question but I'm hoping for someone with real world experience can pleas give me a definitive answer. I've seen the video of the guy cross cutting a sleeper but that was just one cut (and a crosscut at that). Can the P1CC repeatedly do rip cuts on true 4" / 100mm thick oak (or similar hardwood)? I have limited access to oak where I am (small island in the North Sea) but I can get 8x4" oak sleepers. I have done so in the past and ripped it down the middle by hand... all 10 metres of it. So I'd quite like a machine to do that with My bandsaw ain't up to oak anywhere over 2" and the P1CC on a rail sounds like a much easier option! Assuming it can, which blade would folks recommend for making such a heavy cut?
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Jun 24, 2016 23:09:48 GMT -5
Sorry if this is an obvious question but I'm hoping for someone with real world experience can pleas give me a definitive answer. I've seen the video of the guy cross cutting a sleeper but that was just one cut (and a crosscut at that). Can the P1CC repeatedly do rip cuts on true 4" / 100mm thick oak (or similar hardwood)? I have limited access to oak where I am (small island in the North Sea) but I can get 8x4" oak sleepers. I have done so in the past and ripped it down the middle by hand... all 10 metres of it. So I'd quite like a machine to do that with My bandsaw ain't up to oak anywhere over 2" and the P1CC on a rail sounds like a much easier option! Assuming it can, which blade would folks recommend for making such a heavy cut? Is it lots of oak you have to cut or just one rip? 4 inch thick timber is a lot to ask of a jigsaw. It could do it if you took it really slow and had a sharp blade. Not sure why your bandsaw would not be up to the task. It likely would have more power. Another option would be to use a circular saw to cut most of the way and then the jigsaw to finish it in kerf. I love my P1CC and use it for all kinds of things, but 4 inch thick timber would be a challenge.
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Post by reflector on Jun 25, 2016 0:09:59 GMT -5
I'm going to have to go with what MrToolJunkie said: You're really pushing it when you want to push the P1cc for a straight 4m rip. Between using the really long jigsaw blade (Can't use the double thick Cunex blade, its too short for this) and asking a 900W motor in a jigsaw to do this kind of a cut...
Running a tracksaw on that with the track clamped down would be better (Like the KSS80 / K85). I'd finish that cut off using a jigsaw or pull saw and then plane it flush. Or you could flip your oak over and run it again. You wouldn't need the KSS80/K85 if you plan on flipping it like that.
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Post by holmz on Jun 25, 2016 3:28:07 GMT -5
Or the portable Mafell bandsaw...
Maybe the existing bandsaw just needs a new blade? Or the cut 1/2 way through using a tracksaw, and then band saw it?
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Post by Nelsun on Jun 25, 2016 13:57:57 GMT -5
Thanks very much folks. I figured it was a long shot but, having seen the video of the crosscut, I had to ask I have limited room so everything has to be portable... hence my bandsaw is but a mere BS250 and not up to 4" oak. I had been hoping to make the cuts in one pass but that's likely wishful thinking with portable kit. I'll give my tracksaw a go as it'll get at least some of the way through. Thanks again
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Jun 25, 2016 18:55:45 GMT -5
Thanks very much folks. I figured it was a long shot but, having seen the video of the crosscut, I had to ask I have limited room so everything has to be portable... hence my bandsaw is but a mere BS250 and not up to 4" oak. I had been hoping to make the cuts in one pass but that's likely wishful thinking with portable kit. I'll give my tracksaw a go as it'll get at least some of the way through. Thanks again Cut to full depth with the track saw -- maybe in a couple of passes to reduce motor strain and then either flip the piece and finish with the track saw or use the jig saw for the remainder, following the kerf. That would work well and is how I would do that using those tools. Good luck.
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Post by reflector on Jun 25, 2016 19:37:01 GMT -5
If you don't already have a low tooth count blade with deep gullets, I'd order one. Cut rough and clean up afterwards, your tracksaw will thank you for it.
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Post by holmz on Jun 25, 2016 21:45:36 GMT -5
Well the 1/2 HP BS250 bandsaw has less power (~375W) than the p1cc (900W), but the blade is longer so it has more teeth to stay sharper longer. Neither saw would be ideal.
The BS250 is a lot cheaper than a Z5Ec so that is a plus.
For me... with an MT55 and a p1cc... I would probably use the tracks and use the MT55 from each side. If it was >4" then I would use the p1cc for the center with the long 6" Bosch blade. The long Bosch blade does tend to wander a bit and flex with the grain, but it could stay in the right place with the bulk removed with the track saw(??). If you do not have a track saw, and needed one, then a larger one than the MT55 would be what I would tend towards... But I also like the looks of the Z5Ec... it is just a lot of $ for occasional use, and the same could be said ($) for a large track saw.
The Hema ZS20, and Oliver 12M are yet more examples of portable bandsaws, and Makita probably makes one as well.
For the p1cc the Bosch blade needed would be: T344D T344DF T344DP T744D3
Ideally you would bring a chunk of the Oak somewhere, or to someone, with a p1cc and the 4 different blades and be able to see how it goes.
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Post by reflector on Jun 26, 2016 5:11:02 GMT -5
IMO I think the bandsaw route would be more capable than it appears even with less power with these assumptions: 1. The bandsaw's motor is an induction motor, not an universal motor with brushes. (Conversely: There are very efficient brushed motors and relatively inefficient induction motors... A generalization of implied lesser efficiency is the case with universal motors but I'll remark that Mafell winds their own motors and they aren't using another "off the shelf" design so I would find this part debatable. Skip it if you want, points 2-3 still matter for cutting efficiency.) 2. The P1cc still has to expend a good amount of energy to move a counterweight inside of it 3. The P1cc is only cutting 1/2* of the time. That's when its effectively pulling the blade up. A bandsaw spends all of its time cutting and all of the motor's power is utilized for cutting. 4. The bandsaw can be fitted with a really, really low TPI thin kerf resaw blade designed for resawing, which means you're only really powering a few teeth through the cut (Whereas with the long Bosch jigsaw blades you're still cutting with a lot of teeth and they'll be fairly thick to reduce flex)
I'd give the bandsaw a chance still, but at those lengths the tracksaw route seems easier to handle.
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Post by holmz on Jun 26, 2016 6:54:38 GMT -5
The counterweight operates similar to a piston and the crankshaft in an engine, and hence there is no force required once the mass is spinning. The blade going down, and the counterweight going up effectively cancel, just like a piston in an engine.
Only the energy required to overcome frictional forces are what is required to keep it in motion.
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Post by reflector on Jun 26, 2016 15:26:06 GMT -5
My bad. A bit of a brainfart in the middle of the night when I was trying to visualize the disassbled P1cc mechanism thinking that the inertia wouldn't let it ride out TDC/BDC.
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