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Post by yetihunter on May 3, 2016 0:10:04 GMT -5
I was under the impression that the Bosch blades sold with the tracksaw in mind are either Freud Diablo, or out of the same factory.
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Post by dunk1976 on May 5, 2016 7:04:47 GMT -5
Bosch now own Freud
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Post by reflector on Jul 28, 2016 20:27:20 GMT -5
Used the 28T Tenryu (For the first time) to rip douglas fir 2x10s as a test. Produced fairly smooth finishes on cull 2x10s (Cupped) with very little blade marks. You couldn't feel the marks with your finger but I am pretty sure if the rail was clamped down they wouldn't be very visible at all.
The motor did not seem to really strain and I wasn't very feed rate limited. I could feel the MT55 cut into the lumber and start feeling resistance unlike the 12T which effectively was almost free cutting.
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krkww
New Member
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Post by krkww on Jul 29, 2016 10:17:38 GMT -5
Used the 28T Tenryu (For the first time) to rip douglas fir 2x10s as a test. Produced fairly smooth finishes on cull 2x10s (Cupped) with very little blade marks. You couldn't feel the marks with your finger but I am pretty sure if the rail was clamped down they wouldn't be very visible at all. The motor did not seem to really strain and I wasn't very feed rate limited. I could feel the MT55 cut into the lumber and start feeling resistance unlike the 12T which effectively was almost free cutting. When you say "free cutting" do you mean it felt like the saw/blade was not even cutting the wood. In other words it felt like the saw/blade simply glided effortlessly through the wood?
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Post by reflector on Jul 29, 2016 21:21:05 GMT -5
Used the 28T Tenryu (For the first time) to rip douglas fir 2x10s as a test. Produced fairly smooth finishes on cull 2x10s (Cupped) with very little blade marks. You couldn't feel the marks with your finger but I am pretty sure if the rail was clamped down they wouldn't be very visible at all. The motor did not seem to really strain and I wasn't very feed rate limited. I could feel the MT55 cut into the lumber and start feeling resistance unlike the 12T which effectively was almost free cutting. When you say "free cutting" do you mean it felt like the saw/blade was not even cutting the wood. In other words it felt like the saw/blade simply glided effortlessly through the wood? Practically there there. Think of using a table saw to cut through 5mm underlayment with a thin kerf 40T blade. You would barely even feel any resistance if there was any. I effectively could push the MT55cc with the 12T blade at whatever possible rate I could walk and pushing it forward during the walk didn't really bog the motor down. The 28T you'll feel the resistance once you push it hard enough but the motor of the MT55cc doesn't audibly slow down much more than hearing it start to load up. You do hit what seems like a feed rate wall, possibly because of the swarf that builds up in the gullets. The surface finish is significantly better, comparably I would argue it would be just a "little less good" (To my finger, visually there's some marks but they're very fine) than a 52T Tenryu or the 48T Mafell on the edge of 3/4" approx plywood and that has endgrain on it as well. What's the most amazing part of this is the amount of dust that was going into my cyclone. I have a CV06 mini that I use between a Shopvac 58725 10 (A fairly powerful unit in terms of CFM and somewhat in pressure), a synthetic bag (A Numatic HEPAFlo bag), and a Cleanstream filter. Normally with my Bosch 4100 (With my dust collection modifications but no overhead collection yet) I can see a decently sized stream of dust going into the cyclone, but using the MT55cc I can see a thick stream swirling into the cyclone with what appears to be almost twice or more the volume. The MT55cc with the thinner kerf blades and dust collection setup really lets you get away with the dust collection and speed of cut.
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krkww
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Post by krkww on Jul 30, 2016 9:34:56 GMT -5
When you say "free cutting" do you mean it felt like the saw/blade was not even cutting the wood. In other words it felt like the saw/blade simply glided effortlessly through the wood? Practically there there. Think of using a table saw to cut through 5mm underlayment with a thin kerf 40T blade. You would barely even feel any resistance if there was any. I effectively could push the MT55cc with the 12T blade at whatever possible rate I could walk and pushing it forward during the walk didn't really bog the motor down. The 28T you'll feel the resistance once you push it hard enough but the motor of the MT55cc doesn't audibly slow down much more than hearing it start to load up. You do hit what seems like a feed rate wall, possibly because of the swarf that builds up in the gullets. The surface finish is significantly better, comparably I would argue it would be just a "little less good" (To my finger, visually there's some marks but they're very fine) than a 52T Tenryu or the 48T Mafell on the edge of 3/4" approx plywood and that has endgrain on it as well. What's the most amazing part of this is the amount of dust that was going into my cyclone. I have a CV06 mini that I use between a Shopvac 58725 10 (A fairly powerful unit in terms of CFM and somewhat in pressure), a synthetic bag (A Numatic HEPAFlo bag), and a Cleanstream filter. Normally with my Bosch 4100 (With my dust collection modifications but no overhead collection yet) I can see a decently sized stream of dust going into the cyclone, but using the MT55cc I can see a thick stream swirling into the cyclone with what appears to be almost twice or more the volume. The MT55cc with the thinner kerf blades and dust collection setup really lets you get away with the dust collection and speed of cut. That's very helpful, thank you Reflector! I tend to need to straight line rip rough timber and am looking for the best and safest solution. I've used my jointer in the past but that is marginally acceptable if I can not flatten the board first. Usually the boards are wide and twisted somewhat so the next pass through the table saw can be precarious. No, I do not recommend anyone try this at home! But it's what I've had to work with. I have a Tenyru blade on my Kapex and it is a dream! So I appreciate your testimony regarding the 12T. Did I read earlier that this blade matches the kerf made by the stock 48T from Mafell? In other words will it work with the rails spot on? Thanks again, Kevin
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Post by reflector on Jul 30, 2016 13:47:49 GMT -5
All 3 of my Tenryu blades worked on the rails spot on. I did not see any blue dust (Bosch rails) from the anti splinter lip and I didn't see any splintering from the top. As mentioned in the first post, I measured the plate to tooth and listed them. They seem to basically match up to the point where it doesn't matter when you're using the Mafell 48T blade. My measurements were about approx 0.30mm (Kerf minus Plate)for matching the blades to the Mafell blade.
The only blade that didn't work on the splinter guard spot on was the Freud Diablo 4-3/8" which is a smaller blade with a super, super thin kerf and it does leave a sliver off from where the anti splinter guard is. You can also see my numbers on the kerf-plate difference, that was to be expected with it.
If you are going to go with the 12T be aware it does leave a bit of marking on the surface. The 28T will give you a really clean rip if you're willing to deal with a little slowdown compared to "it goes fast as you can push it" in softwood with the 12T.
JAlvis also put a video up of the MT55cc with the 12T Tenryu:
If you're still willing to rip with the table saw, I have seen a guy attach a really long sub fence onto the fence of their tablesaw, 8ft in length and supported way out from the front and it lets them get away with jointing one side:
Given you have the MT55 however that seems a bit silly as an alternative option, I suspect you will like either the 12T or 28T Tenryu. I like both of them as well as the 52T. I just need to build myself a thin strip rip jig in the future.
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krkww
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Post by krkww on Jul 30, 2016 16:02:49 GMT -5
Thanks Reflector, all very helpful!
I do have the jointer so the mill marks left by the 12 T would not necessarily be a problem, however, I do like the thought of being able to eliminate that step by producing a glue line rip with the 28T. That's appealing!
I appreciated seeing the 8' rip fence video too.
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Post by reflector on Jul 30, 2016 17:29:01 GMT -5
I'll take photos of the 28T's cut later and you can see for yourself.
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Post by reflector on Jul 31, 2016 13:41:37 GMT -5
Pardon the gouge mark on the left, I had set the MT55cc to 39mm on the first past thinking that should cut right through. I forgot that thinking that "spot on 1.5"(38.1mm)" wasn't the smartest of ideas. Later I recut deeper to 42mm and the marks are probably from the rail moving a tiny bit after I took the MT55 off and put it back on. Otherwise the 15/32" plywood in the middle was made in a single pass. Attachments:
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krkww
New Member
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Post by krkww on Aug 1, 2016 17:31:36 GMT -5
Pardon the gouge mark on the left, I had set the MT55cc to 39mm on the first past thinking that should cut right through. I forgot that thinking that "spot on 1.5"(38.1mm)" wasn't the smartest of ideas. Later I recut deeper to 42mm and the marks are probably from the rail moving a tiny bit after I took the MT55 off and put it back on. Otherwise the 15/32" plywood in the middle was made in a single pass. Reflector, thanks for taking the time to show me what I can expect. This is very helpful and I appreciate you reaching out! As I've reflected on your posts and considered my own applications, I'd say having both the 12T and 28T is the route I will go. Most grateful, Kevin
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Post by holmz on Aug 2, 2016 2:29:29 GMT -5
...compared to "it goes fast as you can push it" in softwood with the 12T. JAlvis also put a video up of the MT55cc with the 12T Tenryu: ... One just about needs a set of runners to keep up the speed of that cut.
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Post by kraftt on Mar 6, 2017 11:44:49 GMT -5
Just found this thread and wanted to say 'thanks reflector' for all the good info on the Tenryu blades.
I'm finding more uses for my saw other than sheet stock (thought that's all I would use it for at first) and needed some economical blades - the 28 T sounds perfect.
fwiw - my measurements shown in image for the stock mafell 092584 blade were my caliper readings, slightly different from mafell's stated. i made a gif below to show folks the insignificant distance difference to the cut line between the two blades. At .08mm, the gap from splinter guard to Tenryu blade is that of a sheet of standard copy paper.
*(edited to update gif)
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Post by toomanytoys on Mar 22, 2017 7:00:29 GMT -5
Could I ask what you used to make the animated gif?
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Post by kraftt on Mar 22, 2017 10:01:53 GMT -5
Could I ask what you used to make the animated gif? I used to use PhotoShop to create GIF's from scratch. But have since abandoned P.S. for Pixelmator. (Pixelmator has no GIF capabilities as of writing this). I discovered simpler & quicker ways to make throwaway GIF's by leveraging a couple of existing programs and a couple of GIF specific programs. GIF Brewery (like old version better) does the conversion along with some editing control. You really just feed it a clip and then it will create the GIF. (There's also a dirt simple, dirt bare & obscure program called GIFQuickMaker I sometimes, rarely, use for assembly when I'm stuck with separate images and the image editor you are using doesn't have a 'batch' function.) Using QuickTime I simply 'screen record' an area to acquire a clip (from anything on my screen) to feed GIF Brewery. GIF Brewery will let me edit the beginning & end of that clip with slide controls so I can be fast and sloppy with any screen recording and just as fast with GIF Brewery in spitting out what I want. Here's exactly how I made the above GIF - it may seem like a long way round the block but it was faster using 3 programs. Created uber simple diagram in Pixelmator making two separate layers. (Pixelmator has a hidden Vector Graphics program built in). Opened QuickTime and selected area of screen I wanted to record - hit record. Went back to Pixelmator and just slid the opacity on one layer to fake the fade in/out effect. Stopped screen recording and opened the recording in GIF Brewery. Slid GIF Brewery controls to ignore all the cursor movement and recording prior to sliding opacity and then clicked 'Create GIF' Except for the original image creation in Pixelmator it took more time to write this than it did to make the GIF.
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