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Post by nyctinyshop on Oct 11, 2013 4:04:48 GMT -5
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ths61
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by ths61 on Feb 14, 2014 2:12:31 GMT -5
I want to replace my table saw's sliding table with a tack saw. I wanted the stronger motor of the TS75 and was about to drink the Green Kool-Aide, when I discovered I needed longer tracks than the TS55 which made me rethink my purchasing decision. It appears the Festool tracks were originally designed for the TS55, not the TS75. This eventually led to the MT55cc as a possible alternative solution.
I also wanted repeatable parallel cuts, so I ordered the Seneca Parallel Guides because they sit (anywhere) on top of the material where the Festool Parallel Guides hang off the side and tend to bend or fall off if not modified. I now see that the Mafell tracks are not wider than MT55cc which eliminates the top mounted connection option (Festool track is wider than the saw). I either need to stick with Festool tracks, or find a Mafell solution.
I see you have been working on a Mafell solution. I have an idea that may allow custom bottom mounted L brackets to work with a top mounted track like the Seneca Parallel Guides. The bottom of the Mafell track and the bottom of the Incra tracks would be flush.
Your above picture shows the Icra track attached to the bottom of the Mafell track. It might be possible to have a thin L-Bracket which attaches the bottom of the Mafell track. The bottom of the L's would point inwards towards each other and ride on top of the sides of the stock. The Incra track would be attached to the same side of the L bracket as the Mafell track. The bottom of the L's would also have to have a slight dog-leg bend in it bring it flush with bottom of the Mafell tack.
I wish I could describe this better. The tops of the L's would be where the Incra track is now. The bottoms of the L's point inward and ride on top of the stock. The dog-leg bend in the bottoms of the L would raise by the thickness of the L bracket.
The Festool/Festool solution requires the parallel guides to ride on the sides of the stock. This means you have to re-adjust according to varying stock width.
The Seneca/Festool solution allows the parallel guides to sit anywhere on top of the stock. This means you do not have to re-adjust according to varying stock width.
This solution is a hybrid. The parallel guides are still towards the distal sides of the stock, but ride on top of the stock. The length of the bottom of the L's would determine how far the parallel tracks could move inwards.
How the bottom of the L is attached to the Incra stock is TBD.
Also, opposing Z brackets may be better than opposing L brackets. There could be 2 track-nuts in the top of the Z to keep them square on the Mafell track. A similar solution is necessary to keep the Z brackets square to the Incra tracks.
Any thoughts ?
Seneca/Incra parallel tracks (Maybe Seneca can make such a bracket to connect their solution to the Mafell tracks. Their set would be the same with different Incra to Track connectors ):
Festool parallel tracks:
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Post by 7 on Feb 14, 2014 21:54:10 GMT -5
So the L bracket you are discussing would fit into the slot on the bottom of the tracks that accepts the clamps right? I am glad you brought this discussion back up.
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ths61
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by ths61 on Feb 15, 2014 20:02:29 GMT -5
So the L bracket you are discussing would fit into the slot on the bottom of the tracks that accepts the clamps right? I am glad you brought this discussion back up. The Z bracket would fit into the slot closest to the back of the rail that is currently holding the wing-nut. It would most likely be held on by 2 wing-nuts to keep it parallel and perpendicular. The Seneca/Festool guide configuration is more versatile. It allows the parallel guides to be placed anywhere on top of the stock, not just the 2 exact spots required by the Festool/Festool option. I am pretty much sold on the Mafell M55cc, but haven't decided on the rails yet. The Bosch discount package was attractive, but doesn't appear to be available anymore in the US. I did find the package on eBay outside of the US, but the vendor doesn't appear to ship to the US.
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Post by 7 on Feb 15, 2014 22:18:16 GMT -5
I agree that the Seneca/Festool configuration looks better than the Festool parallel guides. My guess is the Toolstop deal on the bosch rails will come back if we just keep an eye on it. The luxury for you is there is no reason you need to decide now, or soon, or ever on the mafell rails if your main interest is the MT55 since it runs on both mafell and festool. I like the mafell splinter guard better and the festool clamps better. The real difference maker is the way the rails connect, mafell is better no contest. If you have long and short festool rails and don't really need to connect & disconnect a lot then I would say there is no compelling reason to change rails…until you start wanting more mafell saws:)
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Feb 15, 2014 22:50:13 GMT -5
My $0.02, go ahead, bite the bullet, and spend the $$ to get the Mafell branded tracks through Timberwolf. The more I use mine, the more I appreciate their superior design. If you're tight on money, just buy them one at a time. Start with a F160, then expand from there. If you mostly cross cut sheets, then add a connector and the angle unit. If you mostly rip sheets, get two tracks and a connector.
Also, the Mafell track bag is VERY nice!! I can fit (2) F160 tracks, (1) F110, (1) F80 tracks and (2) connectors in the main section, plus two clamps and the Angle Unit in the side pouch. With this setup, I can have one (combined) long track AND a cross-cutting track with angle unit, all transported in a single, slim bag.
I'll take some photos this weekend and post up soon.
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ths61
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by ths61 on Feb 16, 2014 1:16:28 GMT -5
... Also, the Mafell track bag is VERY nice!! I can fit (2) F160 tracks, (1) F110, (1) F80 tracks and (2) connectors in the main section, plus two clamps and the Angle Unit in the side pouch. With this setup, I can have one (combined) long track AND a cross-cutting track with angle unit, all transported in a single, slim bag. ... That is a nice combination that pretty much covers what I would normally "need" (2', 4', 6' and 8'). I am replacing a slide table (no tracks yet) and this combo would cover my next 2 projects. Both projects require 4x8 break down and one requires @ 70 - 6' rips consisting of 4 different widths (a lot of repeated cuts, thus the interest in parallel guides). I see MasfellToolStore.com has a (Saw, Blade, Case, Position Indicator, Parallel Guide, F160) package and a (F80, F160, F-WA Angle, F-VS-Connect, Guide Pocket and (2) F-SZ Screw Clamp) package. Those 2 packages would get me there, minus the F110 and 1 connector. The saw package is currently out of stock. Has anyone had problems getting replacement parts or are they pretty quick with restocking items?
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Feb 16, 2014 11:05:49 GMT -5
Hi there!
So, my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that MafellToolStore is the precursor website to Timberwolf Tools. If you look closely, they have the same phone #.
Regarding package deals, my understanding is that the retailer needs to purchase these SKU's as a package directly from Mafell. Since they don't see huge volumes of these items, it sounds like Timberwolf mostly buys tools and parts "a la carte", and sells them as such. My understanding is that you CAN order the packages, but they have to be ordered and delivered from Germany, so you are trading quick delivery for price.
Regarding inventoried items, my impression is that Timberwolf stocks the relatively popular items like MT-55cc, KSS 300, tracks, timber framing equipment, etc..., but in relatively small quantities, to streamline inventory and keep costs down. Therefore, every now and then you might order what would otherwise be an in-stock item that is presently out of stock. That being said, it sounds like Timberwolf gets a delivery from Mafell every week or so, so they can very quickly replenish their inventory.
As the owner of Timberwolf told me, he can order ANYTHING that Mafell makes. If you see it on their German web site, Timberwolf can order for you.
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Post by garch on Feb 16, 2014 20:44:15 GMT -5
Hi there! So, my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that MafellToolStore is the precursor website to Timberwolf Tools. If you look closely, they have the same phone #. Regarding package deals, my understanding is that the retailer needs to purchase these SKU's as a package directly from Mafell. Since they don't see huge volumes of these items, it sounds like Timberwolf mostly buys tools and parts "a la carte", and sells them as such. My understanding is that you CAN order the packages, but they have to be ordered and delivered from Germany, so you are trading quick delivery for price. Regarding inventoried items, my impression is that Timberwolf stocks the relatively popular items like MT-55cc, KSS 300, tracks, timber framing equipment, etc..., but in relatively small quantities, to streamline inventory and keep costs down. Therefore, every now and then you might order what would otherwise be an in-stock item that is presently out of stock. That being said, it sounds like Timberwolf gets a delivery from Mafell every week or so, so they can very quickly replenish their inventory. As the owner of Timberwolf told me, he can order ANYTHING that Mafell makes. If you see it on their German web site, Timberwolf can order for you. For what it's worth this is what I personally know: Until now I have bought all of my Mafell equipment with Dennis Hambruch of Mafell North America in Buffalo,NY before Timberwolf ever started handling Mafell. Dennis began selling Mafell at some point in the 80's. At some point in time Dennis set up a website for online ordering called mafelltoolstore.com. Last week when I ordered my dd40p and accessories I spoke with spencer at timberwolf and asked what ever happened to Dennis. He said Dennis was getting older and decided to retire. From what I gather timberwolf took over Dennis' site mafelltoolstore.com. The template guides and the f310 I ordered when ordering the dd were not in stock and spencer said they just completed an ordering cycle so it would be 2-3wks before the portion of my order that was not in stock would come in. In the past, dealing with Dennis, at one point I needed a particular drill bit for my ZB600 which he did not have in stock. He immediately called the factory in Germany and I had my bit within 1 week. I sure miss Dennis. He was an extreme expert on all Mafell. Guess we're left to do business with whomever chooses to distribute mafell just a note, when ordering my dd I first called Dennis' number and spencer at timberwolf answered. I was a bit surprised.
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Post by 7 on Feb 17, 2014 1:31:50 GMT -5
A link to a short video that Dennis Hambruch posted while in the mafell tool supply business.
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ths61
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by ths61 on Feb 17, 2014 16:47:57 GMT -5
Just got off the phone with Spencer. I was going to order the 2 aforementioned packages above, but it appears they do not sell packages for stocking reasons. Everything they sell is Ala-cart even though the mafelltoolstore website shows the individual packages.
Have to rethink the purchase. Maybe just get the MT55cc and use Festool rails which are readily available here.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Feb 17, 2014 19:53:01 GMT -5
The Mafell tracks are totally worth it, far superior to the Festool tracks. Specifically, the self-aligning connector is far superior and the Angle Unit is very handy.
My understanding was that Timberwolf Tools could order the package deals, but that you lost many of the savings by the time you paid for special freight from Germany.
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Post by garch on Feb 17, 2014 20:43:50 GMT -5
Just got off the phone with Spencer. I was going to order the 2 aforementioned packages above, but it appears they do not sell packages for stocking reasons. Everything they sell is Ala-cart even though the mafelltoolstore website shows the individual packages. Have to rethink the purchase. Maybe just get the MT55cc and use Festool rails which are readily available here. Looks like timberwolf just kept the mafelltoolstore website set up as Dennis had it. The packages you mentioned are the exact ones I had ordered from Dennis when the mt55 first came out. I had pre ordered with Dennis and remember him mentioning I was either the first or second person in the us to get the mt55. Dennis had most of what is listed on the mafelltoolstore website in stock ready for shipment. Hopefully timberwolf will eventually stock more offerings. I agree with tomg, get the Mafell rails. I have both festool and Mafell and much prefer the Mafell rails. i think everyone needs to disregard the mafelltoolstore website and go to the timberwolf site to see what they may actually offer.
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Post by 7 on Feb 18, 2014 1:06:52 GMT -5
Also not a bad idea to wait a little while to see if Toolstop gets another shipment of the bosch rail package deals to sell since you already have festool rails to use in the meantime. I agree with everyone above that the mafell rails are better but the bosch package deal made them really easy to buy…I considered getting two sets at the time but didn't.
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Post by jalvis on Feb 18, 2014 11:06:11 GMT -5
The nice thing about Mafelltoolstore.com is it list prices for accessories that aren't listed on the Timberwolf site.
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