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Post by hemdale on Dec 16, 2015 16:13:17 GMT -5
Hi guys,
For some strange reason, I like this forum better than the FOG, (Wink) so I'll ask the question here.
I've been looking for several months for a good m, strong and reliable joining system.
I've used the Kreg system but for some reason I didn't like it very much.
I've been considering the Domino 500 but some topics say that the 700 is a better machine and will do what the 500 does not and beyond - but here come the hefty tag price and the dominos price.
Whatever happens, I'll be eating up dominos faster than anything else and my fear is that the Domino system would end up being very pricey.
I like the Lamello but some of the joints I could make would require something smaller than a biscuit. Back to square one: the domino wins again.
Then the Mafell doweler DD40.
I'm thinking the dowels can be bought and easily cut to the desired lenght ?
For obvious financial reasons, I'll be only able to afford ONE joining system machine.
What would it be ?
My work goes from cabinets to beds to shelves.
No need to be able to dissassemble for me.
Thanks guys
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Post by thedude306 on Dec 16, 2015 18:00:16 GMT -5
I have the 500 domino and I am VERY happy with it for the most part.
I also use the kreg K5 jig and I like it as well.
I wish I had the DD40 and the 700.
I haven't used my biscuit joiner since getting my domino.
I don't think there is a right answer to your question.
Is shelf pin placement an issue? The DD40 does that nicely as well. I think Jalvis had some photos of that on here somewhere.
For myself, and my work flow, I am using the domino for alignment and then securing with the kreg jig for cabinets/carcasses.
For alignment and strength when attaching boards, the 500 options for sizes has been good for me. I have stacked dominos a few times with success. I have used the 500 where the 700 would have been a better option, and I like the ergonomics of the 700 better (only used it in store once) but the size of the 500 is also nice. You can get the seneca bit adapter but I think that's a bit of a compromise as well...
I'm not sold on the festool attachments for the domino 500. I've had alignment issue with the extension (built for both the 500 and the 700, same piece) and was told recently (as in yesterday) by festool that they are not designed to be adjusted. I kind of felt like I was doing something wrong after talking to them on the phone. I just don't find it to be a well designed accessory.
I also experienced fence drift with the 500 if you are not careful. I have the seneca plate for 1/2" and 3/4" ply that solves that problem in those two mediums.
It sounds like I don't like the domino 500 and that's not the case. I don't think I would want to build things without it, now that I have. From cabinets, to mirror frames, to shelves and tables... It is a must have in my tool box.
But I really want the DD40....
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Post by GhostFist on Dec 16, 2015 18:29:45 GMT -5
I own the lamello zeta, the domino 500 and a dd40. My least favorite is the 500. That being said there's the odd thin that it's best for, such as joining things like balusters or members too small for the Dd4o. Dd4o is a better built machine, is easier to control and multi functioned when it comes to doing shelf pins. Plus dowels are cheap. The zeta is new to me butter you have some amazing joining options with it. If most of what you are doing is cabinetry I recommend either the lamello or dd40. Lamello is pricier, connectors are more expensive but this pays for itself with time saved and versatility. My domino may come up for sale in the new year.
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Post by nucone on Dec 16, 2015 21:22:13 GMT -5
I have both Dominos, DD40, Zeta P & Classic C2 biscuit joiner. I no longer use pocket screws as having the Porter Cable 555 pocket cutter turned me off to them forever. IMHO, the Domino excels at furniture construction where M&T joinery is primarily used and I use it every time when building furniture. I am a little off the 'mainstream view' as I prefer the Domino 500 over the 700 and don't view the 700 as the 'better' machine. In my furniture, I use the 500 about 95% of the time with the balance the 700.
The DD40 and the Lamello products tend to excel in cabinet construction. This has been consistent with my applications in building cabinetry. I have used both in furniture construction and they work fine but my mindset for furniture is biased toward the conventional M&T joinery. The DD40 gives you the ability to drill 32mm systems holes which is a big plus unless you have other methods to accomplish this task.
With respect to economy, if you purchase the Mafell dowels, they are more expensive than the Dominos (e.g. - a pack of 30 - 16x75mm dowels is over $45 [2 dowels needed @ $1.50 each for $3.00 per joint] plus the cost of the drills are $105 each). On the other hand, the largest domino is $54 for a pack of 70 - 14x140mm (77 cents per joint) with only one cutter in the $54 range necessary. The economics will vary depending on what size and length you use, but the Domino is not necessarily the most expensive from a consumables standpoint. The sources for dowels over 12mm diameter are few and far between but if you can find them for less, the economics will change. If you were using mostly 8mm dowels, the DD40 is more economical than 8mm dominos.
Since you mention building beds, that would be enough to drive me to the 700. That is the very reason I purchased it as I needed to do large and deep mortises. I don't care for the 700 in building cabinets as it is too bulky for my taste. My advice is: If most of your projects are furniture, go with one of the Dominos. If most of your projects are cabinets/shelves, go with the DD40.
Steve
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Post by GhostFist on Dec 16, 2015 21:43:16 GMT -5
Sound advice
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R cash
Junior Member
Posts: 73 
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Post by R cash on Dec 16, 2015 21:58:18 GMT -5
I have both dominos and the Duo dowler. I can't make dowels easily but dominos are easy I make them out of scape wood leave it long cut to length per project. Everything said before me on this thread is right on. i make door beds stairways and all sorts of furniture and the domino 700 does the bulk of it. This 48"/96" door has 28 14mm dominos and this teak shelving unit I can't remember but it is a lot of 12mm dominos Have a great day rc   |
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Post by erik on Dec 17, 2015 1:19:21 GMT -5
Tough one since the DD40 could do cabs, beds, shelves and 32mm shelf pins but it requires more precision which is not always desired when doing complicated glue ups.
Starting from biscuit joiner to 500- 700 XL - dd40, I would say start with the DD40 G but be open to the domino 700 and after market accessorizes, especially since you're doing bed frames.
I've been looking at some euro 5/3 combo machines lately and now that the domino is available I really question the mortising attachment but that being said Matthias's Pantorouter is boss.
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Post by checkmax on Dec 17, 2015 2:39:12 GMT -5
I have the 700 and it has been extremely useful. I bought it for larger joinery projects - beds, doors, gates etc. I also purchased an attachment to take the smaller 500 bits. Works reasonably well if not a bit awkward for the smallest sizes.
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Post by holmz on Dec 17, 2015 3:15:39 GMT -5
... If most of your projects are furniture, go with one of the Dominos. If most of your projects are cabinets/shelves, go with the DD40. Steve Steve's whole post was well reasoned. I have a 700 XL and I may end up selling it. Mostly because: 1) for doing sheet goods the DD40 with its castleated rail seem easier than using a holey rail and a router. 2) I have a Zeta P2 coming towards me. I am also looking at the Lamello Invis and beard stroking as I have a task it would be well suited for. As Steve mentioned... It all depends on what you are doing. |
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Post by hemdale on Dec 17, 2015 18:30:11 GMT -5
My advice is: If most of your projects are furniture, go with one of the Dominos. If most of your projects are cabinets/shelves, go with the DD40. Steve Thanks a lot Steve. Would you say that the DD40 is more aimed toward linear / perpendicular joinery ? |
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Post by hemdale on Dec 17, 2015 18:34:40 GMT -5
Also guys, I think it's nice that the Domino can drill slightly larger domino holes by small increments to accept slight lateral adjustments.
Can you do the same with the DD40 ? Not saying I can't be precise enough but I like the fact that the Domino can be a but forgiving.
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Post by nucone on Dec 17, 2015 20:57:18 GMT -5
My advice is: If most of your projects are furniture, go with one of the Dominos. If most of your projects are cabinets/shelves, go with the DD40. Steve Thanks a lot Steve. Would you say that the DD40 is more aimed toward linear / perpendicular joinery ? I do not know what you mean by linear joinery. It does joints like the domino or biscuit joiner. |
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Post by nucone on Dec 17, 2015 20:58:53 GMT -5
Also guys, I think it's nice that the Domino can drill slightly larger domino holes by small increments to accept slight lateral adjustments. Can you do the same with the DD40 ? Not saying I can't be precise enough but I like the fact that the Domino can be a but forgiving. The DD40 drills two holes on 32mm centers. There is no lateral adjustment. |
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Post by holmz on Dec 18, 2015 2:12:27 GMT -5
Also guys, I think it's nice that the Domino can drill slightly larger domino holes by small increments to accept slight lateral adjustments. Can you do the same with the DD40 ? Not saying I can't be precise enough but I like the fact that the Domino can be a but forgiving. Conceptually it seems less useful with out the rail: www.machinemart.co.uk/p/mafell-dd40-800mm-dowel-template-guide-rail/ |
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Post by hemdale on Dec 18, 2015 19:26:27 GMT -5
nucone: sorry what I meant by linear was bicuits / lamelos would be more suited for projects involving straight lines / shapes. Probably why people say that the domino would be more for furniture ?
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