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Post by holmz on Jan 12, 2016 12:04:42 GMT -5
I went to Home Depot yesterday and a proper electrical supplier earlier in the day. I used to think that the US (NEMA/UL) system for power must be the best in the world... The outlets are clearly from the 40' or preceding that with the exposed copper/brass screws. The Au ones pretty much cannot result in shock grabbing it as there is not protruding metal where the wire attach. The circuit breakers in Au (Eu ones) are also somewhat more elegant.
I asked which of the many 220v plugs was the common/standard one, and the electrical guy said, "they are all standard so none of them are 'standard' ". I got the only one he had, and I see at my daughter's that the one in her kitchen is a twist on.
I know that they are standard and NEMA approved, but they seem pretty dodgy.
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Post by toomanytoys on Jan 12, 2016 12:18:47 GMT -5
Sorry but but asking a Home Depot floorman for expert information is akin to participating in the lottery in my experience. Although if you get the right one he may show you the special 221v outlet referred here lately in a video.
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Post by holmz on Jan 12, 2016 12:56:19 GMT -5
The electrical store fellow sent me to HD for the dimmer switch. (Trying to figure if the daughter's sewing machine is dodgy in the foot pedal or the electronics in the machine.)
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Post by Red on Jan 14, 2016 3:32:50 GMT -5
220, 221...whatever it takes.
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Post by Red on Jan 23, 2016 12:31:40 GMT -5
I went to Home Depot yesterday and a proper electrical supplier earlier in the day. I used to think that the US (NEMA/UL) system for power must be the best in the world... The outlets are clearly from the 40' or preceding that with the exposed copper/brass screws. The Au ones pretty much cannot result in shock grabbing it as there is not protruding metal where the wire attach. The circuit breakers in Au (Eu ones) are also somewhat more elegant. I have a friend in Germany -- who also retired from engineering work in the electrical field -- and he swears that the UK's electrical standards are the safest in the world. Said it before and I'll say it again: the Euro 230V system is superior to the US Edison-influenced 120V power system.
I asked which of the many 220v plugs was the common/standard one, and the electrical guy said, "they are all standard so none of them are 'standard' ". I got the only one he had, and I see at my daughter's that the one in her kitchen is a twist on. I know that they are standard and NEMA approved, but they seem pretty dodgy. Having denigrated the US power system, I still have to say that we do have some fairly excellent electrical accessories available. The Hubbell-style accessories, for example, are as good (or better) than any I've ever seen...NEMA is merely a configuration standard, it has nothing to do with the quality of the housings, the grommeting or the connectors themselves. In fact, you could open a water hose on top of some of the Hubbell designs, all day long, and never see any difference.
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Post by reflector on Jan 27, 2016 0:42:39 GMT -5
I don't suppose you guys crimp ferrules onto the ends of your cables?
I just got my connectors today and I've already prepped lengths. I'm just waiting for a ratcheting crimping tool to arrive at this point.
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Post by Red on Jan 27, 2016 0:53:47 GMT -5
I don't suppose you guys crimp ferrules onto the ends of your cables? I just got my connectors today and I've already prepped lengths. I'm just waiting for a ratcheting crimping tool to arrive at this point. Mind if I ask why you're installing ferrules? Do you own a soldering iron?
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Post by reflector on Jan 27, 2016 0:58:35 GMT -5
Factory wiring from Mafell has crimped on ends, Bosch does the same as well. Just maintaining consistency and the solder "can" crack.
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Post by Red on Jan 27, 2016 1:11:06 GMT -5
I'm the electrical engineer who started this thread, so I suppose you can educate me in electronics some more...What does putting the word can within parenthesis mean? In other words, enthrall me with your acumen...
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Post by reflector on Jan 27, 2016 1:21:29 GMT -5
Lead free solders tend to be fairly hard (...And brittle in some cases) and I question what I'm able to conveniently procure if I go with lead free solder. Tinning the end would give me a crisp and hard end but an additional stress point (Given that the P1cc is a jigsaw and I don't question the MT55cc is a vibrating environment) would be concentrated around the transition between the tinned end and the untinned remainder.
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Post by Red on Jan 27, 2016 2:07:29 GMT -5
As this is a wood-working forum -- not an electrical engineering forum -- I've alway been very hesitant to go too far with electrical/electronics discussion...The posts in this thread are now on record, however, so I'm pretty much compelled to address them.
The solder I've used since I was formally taught to solder in the early 80s is Kester "44," which is 63-percent tin (Sn) and 37-percent lead (Pb) with a resin (RA) core. It comes in various diameters, but .040 is my personal favorite.
When it is cleaned thoroughly -- and the solder is applied at the correct temperature using the proper techniques -- a solder joint will not "crack." I worked in the aerospace industry for many years -- both on the bench and in an engineering role -- so I can tell anyone reading this that bad soldering, which includes the wrong choice of solder, is just that: bad soldering.
If an F-15 fighter -- powered by twin (2) F100 turbofans -- can be controlled via electronic circuitry linked via (literally) hundreds of thousands of properly applied solder joints, our P1cc, KSS80Ec and ZSXEc Mafell power tools can be controlled in the same way. Sure, gold ferrules, when properly installed via the correct tool(s), will do a fine job on the end of a properly stripped electrical lead -- but they are certainly not necessary.
As with any type of soldering, the correct techniques and the correct supplies must be used to obtain the proper results...but those results will last for many years in all manner of electro-mechanical devices.
If anyone wishes to have an electrical discussion, please feel free to PM me.
Don't cut corners and be safe, Red
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Post by reflector on Jan 27, 2016 2:43:08 GMT -5
That's an interesting point to note on the F-15. Are a significant amount of the non surface mount/non circuitboard components soldered? I have heard that aerospace and automotive, outside of SMDs and circuitboards (Since there's no getting around that realistically), generally prefers to crimp connections due to the vibrating environment factor.
I would assume the soldered components in aerospace are qualification tested as entire assemblies with the specific solder speced to the specific subassemblies? My own reasoning was that when I pulled the wires to check the original wiring I saw the crimped ends and I decided that while I could solder or even go without (Not such a fan of this given the fanning out of the wires due to the potential loss of conductor contact) but matching the closest equivalent to the manufacturer's intent (unless a provably better option exists) would avoid adding variables.
Just an aside on the F-15: Doesn't it have a fairly low mean time between repairs compared to power tools in general? Given Cold War era military aerospace hardware was designed for performance with lifecycle costs (Incl. of time) balanced to achieve the design intent and initial procurement budget?
Not to deter anyone from soldering for their own options. I'm just curious for the knowledge and think others would find this knowledge enlightening.
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Post by holmz on Jan 27, 2016 3:08:14 GMT -5
We have been over this before. I am in the camp of "no solder" as newer airplanes and race cars use crimping at the connectors to avoid fracturing at the end of the solder.
The little copper deals on the ends of the Mafell wires are nice. But I just twisted mine together and let the screw bite into the new wire pigtail. So far they have "worked a treat" for me.
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Post by Red on Jan 27, 2016 3:38:58 GMT -5
One of my specialties in the military was based on electrical test equipment (PME) used to keep F-4s, F-16s, F-15s, F- and EF-111s flying and -- in all those airframe configurations -- I don't recall seeing any surface mounted electronic components or devices: through hole or mechanical all the way.
My first job, after military service, was at KSC during the height of the shuttle program. In fact, they were the first to insist on formal training in soldering methods and techniques, so my "certification," if you will, was earned there. Anyway, I don't recall seeing a whole lot of surface mounted circuitry there, either.
Later, I worked in a PME lab just outside of KSC and the old Mercury-era tech's working there used to say, We put a man on the moon...and, you know what, they were right. The point is that proper soldering has worked very, very well for many, many years.
By the way, I've seen precision crimpers being tested in a physical-dimensional calibration laboratory, which just goes to show you that the proper tools must be used to render a reliable crimp.
Have a good one, Red P.S. I've never worked in power tool manufacturing, so I have no access to statistical data relating to power tool reliability.
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Post by Red on Jan 27, 2016 3:48:36 GMT -5
We have been over this before. I am in the camp of "no solder" as newer airplanes and race cars use crimping at the connectors to avoid fracturing at the end of the solder. The little copper deals on the ends of the Mafell wires are nice. But I just twisted mine together and let the screw bite into the new wire pigtail. So far they have "worked a treat" for me. Good to hear from you, Mister Holmz. Yes, we have been over this before, but, as I recall, we agreed to disagree.
I was in the aerospace and/or space business for enough years to know that proper soldering techniques are utterly reliable...but I still agree to disagree, so this is all elementary.
The important thing here is that I started this thread by answering a question about how well a profesionally-modified P1cc fits in its Mafell systainer. The tools in the initial photo was modified, sans expensive gold ferrules, and economical, yet reliable, solder joints were employed throughout. Once again, a crimping tool was not necessary.
Have a good day, Red
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