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Post by pawelp76 on Sept 8, 2015 6:21:18 GMT -5
Hi guys.
This is my first post in this forum so I'd like to say hello to all of you.
I've been reading the forum for a while, quite impressed with your knowledge and wanted to use your experience when buying my first saw.
I've finally moved out of flat to a house, have some space and will to do some DIY stuff. Have a few obvious tools like drill/driver, chisels, hand saws and some not so obvious tools like woodpecker squares, CTL Midi, Domino 500.
I'm not a tradesman, my tools are only for my hobby but I like quality tools.
The furniture I do is done mostly from melamine bought and cut to the given dimensions. However very often I have a need to make a straight cut like changing the lenght of a shelf, cut the stock for a sandbox, wooden house for children etc.
For this reason I'm trying to find a saw that would suit my needs.
I'm thinking about MT55cc with 1600 rail or KSS400. with such rail
I won't be cutting 2700mm x 2070mm sheets of melamine boards myself as I don't have means to transport such sheets nor the place to cut it. But as I said above will need to trim shelves and other stuff and would like it to be precise and clean cut.
I'd like to hear from people who own both saws which one would suit my needs better.
Would I be able to put an MT55cc blade in the KSS400, even though on Mafell page for KSS400 it's not listed)?
If so, would I be able to make a good cut with it cutting backwards a few milimeters and then full plunge forward or is the scoring function on MT55cc a lot better here?
Or would MT55cc with 800 and 1600 rails be better for my needs? 800 to make cuts on narrow wooden stock and 1600 or 1600+800 in case I need a very long cut once in a while?
I can't get both as I would have to accept some of my wife's ideas about a garden etc. :-)
I'm looking forward to read about your experience and suggestions. Paweł
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Post by holmz on Sept 8, 2015 6:47:13 GMT -5
Same boat as you... DIY. Where are you located?
I think for general sheets the MT55 is stellar, and I use it for 2x4s etc. I have mine on an MFT/3 with instructions in this forum from Jonathon. If you were doing more 'contracting' then maybe the KSS???
I have my MT55 on a FT CT26, so it works with no drama on thta front as well. If you get, or use an MFT, then I woudl suggest 3 rails (1600). I cute one at ~1100, and use teh offcut for short chunks. The 1600 s perfect for a 1220 (48") sheet. I also have a Bosch Holey rail "OFA Kit 800"" with the clamps. I use Bosch rails and a Mafell bag to store it in. YRMV
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Post by GhostFist on Sept 8, 2015 11:35:06 GMT -5
I might suggest looking into festool's latest offering as well. While I don't have personal experience with this product, as I understand, it's very similar to the 400. Personally I own a kss 300 and an mt55.the 300 is great for sheet goods and produces a surprisingly good cut, incredibly handy tool. The mt55 gives a prestine cut and is incredibly accurate.
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Post by thedude306 on Sept 8, 2015 12:49:30 GMT -5
The blades for the 400 and MT55 are interchangeable. I own both and it would be a hard decision to give up one over the other. They both excel in different areas BUT they both produce very nice cuts. I don't think I could tell the difference out side of the scoring feature when used on melamine.
I think the KSS400 is a more versatile saw but the MT55 is nicer on sheet goods.
hmmm I think I would go for the MT55 and get a decent cordless saw for the general stuff?? But then again, you won't have full sheet goods so maybe the 400 is the way to go. Not much help am I??
As for rails, I like as many as you can get. I have 4 1600mm, an 1100 and two 800. I use them all.
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heiko
Junior Member
Posts: 80
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Post by heiko on Sept 8, 2015 13:16:34 GMT -5
The KSS400 is a little bit soft because it clamp only one site of the baseplate I sold mine but I'm happy with my MT55
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Post by holmz on Sept 8, 2015 19:40:50 GMT -5
... As for rails, I like as many as you can get. I have 4 1600mm, an 1100 and two 800. I use them all. ^Yeah^ I found that 2x 1600-mm rails is the absolute minimum, and 1 rail connector. Minimum kit: - 2x 1600 rails - 1 connector Next: - Mafell carry bag - Bosch OFA 800 Kit (800 holey rail and clamps and router kit) Or - just the Bosch quick clamps (assuming no router) Next: - 3rd 1600 rail(s) - another rail connector(s)
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Post by pawelp76 on Sept 10, 2015 3:53:36 GMT -5
Thank you all for the comments.
I'm leaning towards MT55 because of precision. Especially after seeing video clips pasted by heiko. I guess it's not a big deal when working with some narrow stock but I want the saw to be universal for narrow and wide material, cutting on short rail as well as the long one (if there is a need).
I'm from Poland and here the difference between RRP prices for Festool and Mafell is not that big. For comparison: KSS400 - 2533 pln (438 GBP) no transport case HK 55 EBQ-Plus-FSK420 - 2394 pln (414 GBP) with SYS4
KSS400+F160 - 2831 pln (489 GBP) no transport case HK 55 EBQ-Plus-FS - 2040 (352 GBP) but no FSK420 which I guess is the main point of having such saw FSK 420 alone 807 pln (140 GBP)
MT55cc MaxiMax with F160 - 2910 pln (503 GBP) TS 55 REBQ-Plus-FS - 2712 pln (469 GBP)
As you can see the differencies are not big. That's why I'm looking for the best saw which would serve me long time, not the cheapest one. I read about the rails, haven't used Festool ones, haven't touched Mafell ones. I could test Festool at my local dealer but I can't even touch anything made by Mafell, need to order it.
There is no way I would buy longer rail than 2 meters that's why Mafell has advantage here with the connector being superior to Festool's one. I could buy 800 + 1600 and use 800 on narrow material or 1600 on long one or both if there is a need (outside or in the corridor in the basement) but storing and using FS2400/2 would be difficult in my case. Besides FS2400/2 is 185 GBP and Mafell's F80 is 48 GBP and F160 is 81 GBP making it in total 130 GBP and what's more important it's way more portable. And since the connection is good it should be as good as FS2400/2 right ?
The comparison between Festool and Mafell prices is not really that simple as at my local dealer I could get around 20-23 % discount so the gap would widen.
But as I said, I want the best one not the cheapest one. Don't want to find out that the saw I bought is struggling or is too weak to make a cut in some solid timber (as I read about TS 55) if I'll have to do some cut in a future. I want it to be as future proof as possible as it certainly won't pay for itself like for you guys who make money using these tools.
Thanks Paweł
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Post by GhostFist on Sept 10, 2015 4:53:36 GMT -5
Both festool and Mafell are higher end tools it really comes down to which of the finer details you prefer. for me I favoured the rails and the little extras on the mt55, it might not be as important to you. tough choice
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Post by holmz on Sept 10, 2015 5:34:32 GMT -5
Thank you all for the comments. I'm leaning towards MT55 because of precision. Especially after seeing video clips pasted by heiko. ... Here is another: more:
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Post by toomanytoys on Sept 10, 2015 9:21:36 GMT -5
Based on my past experience I feel compelled to stick my nose in here. I've only owned the MT55 and never the KSS400 although I will at some point.
My past history with the tracksaw concept goes back many years, to a NJ business that provided tracks and accessories where you used your own preference of saw. To come out of the closet, yes it's Eurekazone. I still have many of the components, including some of their newer products and use them when it's a good choice. There are some good quills in the bag.
Since you mounted a saw to their provided baseplate you had a lot of options, and the fanbase over the years had evolved through many saw recommendations. I tried a good number of them and since my professional line of work was product testing it was not unusual for me to look closely at everything for both good and bad points. And one of those aspects was as Heiko pointed out in the videos, using a dial gauge too.
One of my favorite saws is the Porter Cable Mag series, and I still have them as both left and right bladed. Just as Heiko pointed out, their magnesium baseplate can be flexed especially as the motor is lifted when reducing depth of cut. The thing is I used those saws for years before discovering this trait, building cabinets and other projects while the cuts always kept their desired cut angle, 90 degree or other. I only started to look at this on my saws when other people stated they were having perpendicular cut issues with other models of saws.
What it came down to once I started my "product testing" mode was yes you could flex the saw on the track, but I would only experience that error if I torqued the handle, which I could see someone doing if they were cutting while in an awkward position reaching way over a panel trying to extend their reach. I had never let myself get into such a situation.
So my point is the KSS400 may have a more flexible plate, but it shouldn't necessarily be labeled as a deficient saw if it's shown that it works fine in a normal, non-stressed manner. Based on my previous history of working with saws demonstrating the same flexibility of the plate I would not expect I would have a distorted cut using the KSS400. But the ultimate answer can only come from those of us who have the KSS400 and use it for critical cuts. Product testing to find weak points doesn't always show a real world issue. Same point that came across in another discussion on this site about Festools issues in the Canadian videos.
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Post by GhostFist on Sept 10, 2015 11:14:17 GMT -5
I don't own the 400 but my 300 has been flawless.
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Post by thedude306 on Sept 10, 2015 11:29:49 GMT -5
If it's that close on price, I would go mafell/bosch for the rails alone. They are SOO nice as compared to the festool. Easy to swap and perfectly align every time.
And both the 400 and the MT55 run on them, so that is a bonus as well.
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heiko
Junior Member
Posts: 80
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Post by heiko on Sept 10, 2015 11:58:33 GMT -5
The kss300 have clamping on both sides like the Festool Hkc55, Hk55 and Hk85(very interresting saw ). The KSS400 can swing free because the missing clamping on the back...
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Sept 10, 2015 12:34:10 GMT -5
Based on my past experience I feel compelled to stick my nose in here. I've only owned the MT55 and never the KSS400 although I will at some point. My past history with the tracksaw concept goes back many years, to a NJ business that provided tracks and accessories where you used your own preference of saw. To come out of the closet, yes it's Eurekazone. I still have many of the components, including some of their newer products and use them when it's a good choice. There are some good quills in the bag. Since you mounted a saw to their provided baseplate you had a lot of options, and the fanbase over the years had evolved through many saw recommendations. I tried a good number of them and since my professional line of work was product testing it was not unusual for me to look closely at everything for both good and bad points. And one of those aspects was as Heiko pointed out in the videos, using a dial gauge too. One of my favorite saws is the Porter Cable Mag series, and I still have them as both left and right bladed. Just as Heiko pointed out, their magnesium baseplate can be flexed especially as the motor is lifted when reducing depth of cut. The thing is I used those saws for years before discovering this trait, building cabinets and other projects while the cuts always kept their desired cut angle, 90 degree or other. I only started to look at this on my saws when other people stated they were having perpendicular cut issues with other models of saws. What it came down to once I started my "product testing" mode was yes you could flex the saw on the track, but I would only experience that error if I torqued the handle, which I could see someone doing if they were cutting while in an awkward position reaching way over a panel trying to extend their reach. I had never let myself get into such a situation. So my point is the KSS400 may have a more flexible plate, but it shouldn't necessarily be labeled as a deficient saw if it's shown that it works fine in a normal, non-stressed manner. Based on my previous history of working with saws demonstrating the same flexibility of the plate I would not expect I would have a distorted cut using the KSS400. But the ultimate answer can only come from those of us who have the KSS400 and use it for critical cuts. Product testing to find weak points doesn't always show a real world issue. Same point that came across in another discussion on this site about Festools issues in the Canadian videos. All good points honestly have never had problem with the base flexing and causing issues. Yes I can make it flex, but it is only when doing it deliberately over stretching etc. Yet when used under normal working conditions I can't say I've ever noticed any issues be it plunging at 90/45. Sometimes I wonder do people have problems with certain tools or techniques as they have never grasped the basics like how to use a hand saw. Now a hand saw is far mor easy to flex than any circular saw. Yet it is perfectly possible to cut square and straight as you learn to let the saw do the work not force things and provided you set off right and worry about where the cut is going to end and not too much on the saws current position along the line it does naturally stick to the line and finish in the right place. Now using hand tools is a lot slower and a lot harder yet you do learn how to control your wrist movement so you don't torque the saw blade etc. Which are all techniques that can be transferred to using power tools. I personally think that for the OP the mt55 sounds the better choice of tool for them
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Post by mick on Sept 10, 2015 13:11:14 GMT -5
I have the two saws if I could only have one I would go for the 400 for me it dose it all on the f rails it's own track system and just as a circular saw. Regarding the flex to be honest I didn't notice it on till it was pointed out here doesn't bother me at all. The mt55 is a fantastic saw cut quality is better on sheet goods and is nicer to use on sheet goods than the 400 but for me I would only use it on the track and would find it no use for frame work and I do a lot of that kind of work. So for me if I was only cutting sheet goods and very little else then the mt55 If I was looking for an all rounder the 400 by fair
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